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Episode Transcript
Sharad Lal: Good morning, Anandji. Welcome to How to Live. Great to have you. It's a huge honour to have you on the show. How are you doing this morning?
Anand Mehrotra: It's such a great joy to be with you.
Sharad Lal: I know you're in the beautiful little hill station of Rishikesh, it's the monsoons there, and you look nice and bright, and I'm so excited about this conversation with you. As we get started, Anandji, If you could just paint a picture of what the Vedas and the Upanishads were, what was their historical significance.
And then we can of course talk about why it is relevant today.
Historical Significance of the Vedas and Upanishads
Anand Mehrotra: You see the word Veda comes from the root of Vid, which means knowledge. So the Vedas are about the great body of knowledge that is fundamental to the human experience. From the Vedic perspective, the way out of suffering is through awareness, through knowledge. The fundamental resource in life is knowledge. And when you have the correct knowledge, then you can navigate your way through life in a very elegant manner.
Scripturally before they were written down, it's an oral tradition. The oral tradition is the primary tradition. The written tradition is only supporting the oral tradition, which is very important to realize so that we do not misunderstand and do not take the written word literally because that has caused a lot of trouble for humanity, so it's always in alliance with the oral tradition, which is fundamentally designed to help the human being grow and evolve.
So it's really the teachings that are designed. For growth, for as long as the individual is growing in both directions, growing in the direction of self-awareness and growing in the direction of external awareness. then Our impact can be of greater harmony. the Vedic teachings, there is nothing, no aspect of life, which is not touched upon, which is not included in the Vedic teaching.
So they're not specifically faith driven or ritual driven. It's not just one reductionist idea of life, but really a holistic view of life and then answering different questions, which can help us gain greater harmony.
Sharad Lal: Very fascinating. So many thousand years ago people discovered this and this was an oral tradition passed on and it's written, but it's still passed on in its oral form. So it's clearly communicated to people And they understand the context. Now, how is it becoming so much more relevant today in today's day and age in the modern context of the hustling bustling world?
Are the Vedas and Upanishads Still Relevant Today?
Anand Mehrotra: These are unique times. Now with the coming of AI, which really is gonna be a big cushion, what does it means to be a human being? If you are. only speaking about external identity and computation, then your consciousness is just a result of the firing of electrons, the firing of neurons.
So I think the most fundamental aspect of the human experience now is the spiritual experience, the subjective experience because only that subjective experience really defines what a human being is now. And so the Vedic wisdom is all about answering and harmonizing the subjective world, the real world. Our life primarily happens within us. And in this time when we are finding more and more information, more and more confusion is happening. The more information that is, the more confusion. And so I think we know a lot, which is irrelevant now.
But what we do not know is yourself. So if we want to really live a life of fearlessness, then we have to look within and the Vedic teachings are really designed to help us gain understanding of self.
Sharad Lal: What a wonderful point.
There's so much noise around us that we don't know who we are. And this makes it even more relevant than ever to be able to go within ourselves, understand who we are, and that then is a part of, like you said, knowledge, potential, and many other things. Now, for people who are starting their spiritual journey, what's a good way to get started and figure out ways to go within themselves and access some bits of the wisdom that exists out there?
Where Can We Start Our Spiritual Journey?
Anand Mehrotra: In the Vedic tradition, the first thing is the primacy of knowledge through direct experience. And that's an important distinction between information and wisdom. Wisdom is gained through direct experience. So then the spiritual path, the fundamental thing, has to be getting practice, right?
A practice of Stillness. It is not a very exciting thing in the beginning, but that's where the real magic lies. It can even be as short as 15, 20 minutes, once or twice a day. Start with that, start with the practice, and learn a technique properly.
So it can be a Kriya based technique, a meditation-based technique, any technique, which is helping you gain a deeper access to the inner field of stillness. Only then you can begin to harness the mind. Only then can you begin to make a distinction between just the noise of the mind and the true insight.
Sharad Lal: Such a good point about information versus wisdom. Wisdom is gained from actual experience and there are no shortcuts to it. Even in my own journey, it's very boring to begin with, but in that boredom, you start canceling the noise and slowly start getting a sense of things that are important to you.
In your experience, what are some interesting things that come to people if they've spent six to one year getting still, what are some realities that strike and tell them,. Oh, wow, this is interesting. This is how I've been looking at things in the wrong way. And now I can shift the way I think about it.
What Are Some Interesting Realizations Among People?
Anand Mehrotra: One of the most primary things that people begin to realize is the distinction between the self and the activity of the mind. In the untrained state, the activity of the mind totally captures the whole human experience, right?
So the awareness of the individual collapses on the content of the mind and so the subject and the object have no distinction. which keeps them from reality. So it's like this constant barrage, which is constantly flowing. So it keeps you separate from the experience of true reality. So I think one of the first things that we people start to happen is this distinction that starts.
Establish between the self and the activity and you start to realize, oh, you have a choice here where you can shift your mind, where you can, you don't have to believe everything the mind is generating, you begin to see how the mind paints a picture, which often most often is not in touch with reality.
That's a beginning point for self-mastery. then naturally a greater sense of peace, a greater sense of fearlessness starts to come because you realize the fear is all generated by the mind. So you have a greater sense of inner freedom that starts to happen.
Sharad Lal: Such an interesting point. Once you go in, you realize that your thoughts are not you.
There are two distinct things out there. These thoughts can get so exaggerated and dramatized. And that's what we see as stress. And that layer prevents us from seeing reality.
And if you're able to have the discipline of understanding this is just a layer that's been created, we can remove it And see reality, that's when we start moving forward. Buddha put it. very nicely when he talked about the second arrow syndrome, where it's the first arrow that hits you, but it's the second arrow, which is the thoughts and the dramatization, which makes it 20 times worse. you touched upon something so important that all of us go through all these thoughts to do with fear. And I know the Vedas talk a lot about fear and I also know fear is also the pathway to many things that potentially I would love to double-click if you can talk a little bit more about fear and what it can, show us as we face it.
How to Face Fear?
Anand Mehrotra: Fear is at the base of human experience and the denial of it leads to all kinds of violence and conflict. One has to acknowledge the fear that is within oneself and only then one can begin to transcend it. And fear is coming from a fundamental crisis of identity. It's an identity crisis as to who I am and where I am. Am I existing as an isolated particle in an unknown and alien universe?
And so when you begin to really look into that fear, you begin to realize that you have to answer the most fundamental questions as to who you are. And where are you? Are you just an accident of the universe? Are you living? So these are some profound questions. And if you do not answer it, then that fear stays. And no matter how much you run outside, no matter how many castles you build, no matter how much army you get, no matter how much bank balance you get, the fear is living inside of you constantly. And it can show up as different things can show up as a sense of worthlessness, this sense of existential meaninglessness, this fear of the ultimate boredom.
So we have to look into it and begin to realize the invitation of that fear is to gain answers to the fundamental questions, Who am I? Where am I? We cannot get these answers as information. As we said in the beginning, these answers can only be answered through direct experience. And only then the fear starts to fade. And instead of fear informing our actions, then it starts to be inspiration and love, which starts to inform our actions. And the effect begins. A profound shift in life.
Sharad Lal: I found it interesting that when we have this fear we are going like you said doing external things to get it away whether we could try to get more money, better jobs, etc. But in reality, It never goes away because it's not being addressed. And that's what needs to be addressed.
You have to experience it, spend some time, And then connect it to love beautifully. And I also know from a physical standpoint, which I've heard you talk about so many times, that the root chakra is where the fear sits, And then the heart chakra is where the love sits.
If you can talk a little bit about fear and love from a physical chakra standpoint as well, I would love to understand.
Fear and Love From a Physical Chakra Standpoint
Anand Mehrotra: From the yogic system, the root center Mooladhara chakra is the seat of fear. It is also the seat of ego identity and at the same time, it is the seat of infinite potential. On the other side of fear is your infinite potential. Unlocking this root chakra is about acknowledging his base identity questions, and then you start to work on it energetically, start to shift the energy up from the root up to the heart center. That's where the love starts to come online. Otherwise, before that, you don't, you have ideas about love, but not an experience of love. Even in the context of love, what you experience is fear, even in relationships, right?
People get into relationships, and then you have an idea of love. But what you experience in relation to this fear of loss and jealousy and control and all politics of relationships that come and so on. As long as that fear on the personal level is not being addressed, we really can't actually have the true experience of love. So it is that addressing a fear, which has to send energy up enough energies becomes available to the system where the heart chakra starts to come online. When the heart is coming online, incredible things start to happen within the physical system; non-local communication starts to become available.
People who have genuine connection, the experiences all the time, when we can have this experience with one or two people, imagine when the heart starts to come more and more online and we start to experience a sense of connection with the greater whole, So root chakra represents ego consciousness and heart chakra represents cosmic consciousness. you move from an identity of isolated awareness in a bag of skin to an expression of the universe.
You have this sense of greater unity with the extended reality around you. This experience of inner connection is deeply tied up to the Anahata chakra, and this experience of connection is really the beginning of all love. Connection is love.
Sharad Lal: Very profound points, Anandji, and as you were speaking, there's so much wisdom coming there. Firstly, fear also can open infinite possibilities and the path from fear to love need not be intellectual. You don't need to think about intellectuals. It could be energetic through different forms of chakra cleansing or Kundalini yoga or different forms of yoga where there is a connection between it physically, energetically, which brings out intuitive realization.
So I love that part. And I also like how he talked about love. Many of us when we think about love, we think about romantic love, which then has attachment and fear and what if this goes wrong or something happens. But you talked about infinite love where you move from singular local to universal.
I'd love to double click on that. If you can talk a little bit more about love and what is this concept of through the anahata, the heart chakra, infinite love. What can it look like and how can some of us access it?
Anahata - The Heart Chakra
Anand Mehrotra: as we start to energize the system and we start to have this heart-centered experience, you start to experience existential love. Because your identity moves from this ego identity to this sense of holistic awareness and so you begin to have this experience of being loved.
Like being held in love so that you can rest in your silence. When you rest in your silence and you rest in your being, you don't need any external stimulus to escape yourself. Because when you rest you begin to train yourself to rest in that silence. That silence is what reveals, begins to reveal to you that subtle field of love, we realize that we are alive and that it's phenomenal. intelligence at work.
There is a core intelligence at work in life. And That's love. Life is love. As you begin to realize that then your ability to love increases. Love functions in you being loving. Can you be loving? That's the law of the universe, right? Whatever you give out, you get back. But how can you give love if you don't have an experience of it?
Everybody is interested in love, but we think love is just about finding someone. No, it's about finding yourself. When you begin to find yourself, you naturally have an increase in your ability to love. You become a loving being. The more you love, the more you get it back. your life starts to be more and more whole. Love requires proper training. it's not, stone that you find on the street.
Sharad Lal: What a profound point again, Anandji, The thing that you described in the stillness, as you go deeper and deeper through training, you find that you're held in love. And that is that beautiful, profound experience. It's just difficult to explain. And people who've had it a few times and had it quite often, that then becomes the source of giving love because then it opens up to universal love. It's not necessarily what we look at as romantic love. And that's how I saw you even relating it to intelligence.
Anand Mehrotra: Yeah. That this existential love starts to come up in your base experience, there's experience of being held in love with different traditions of called grace, But grace, when people speak of grace, it's somehow spoken off as you have to be deserving of it.
And then some alien authority finds you deserving and then sends it to you. But from the Yogi perspective, grace is, at the core. Grace is, it's not given. It is, it has to be realized. So love is, it is not given. It has to be realized. Now, once that happens, when love bubbles up in your experience, then how you express it all, the primary experience of love then becomes gratefulness, and you wake up with a grateful heart.
And a grateful heart is a magnet for happiness. enough statistics a day, grateful. People are happier, healthier, and have stronger immune systems. Then you have a sense of all by the mystery of this universe. You have a natural sense of compassion that starts to arise a sense of forgiveness to yourself, self-compassion and also for others.
You begin to realize that they are business. Also struggle, and they have their own challenges, and they are also looking for the same thing that you are. Then you have a greater playfulness towards life, right? Because you don't look at life as a battle to be won.
You can either live this life as a battle, or you can live this life as a play. Now, if you have access to a field of love, then you can begin to live this life as a play. And the great thing about play is you don't have to always win. The reward of play is in play. remember as kids, when you played I just wanted it to be fun playing.
And so you realize living itself is the greatest gift. And so you have greater awareness around sustainability. It leads to a more sustainable life because you are naturally more joyous in the here and now. And so you're more creative. But that creativity is not a curse anymore. That creativity is freeing. But otherwise, we find creativity becomes a curse. Because we finally cannot rest in peace. We constantly need to do something, trying to get somewhere.
I'm not, and with this ego voice always, right? Everybody knows it. You're not doing enough. You're not enough. You're not producing enough. Look at the world. Look at them, what they're doing. This voice constantly goes on. And so this sense of creativity becomes free, more free.
And so love leads us from war to play. And it's a life of play instead of a life of war
Sharad Lal: Again, such deep connections like love leading to gratefulness, leading to happiness, which leads to awe, which then leads to playfulness, And that becomes a way of life. I love how you talk about Playfulness, Leela.
Leela means you enjoy the process, you're enjoying what you're doing, there's no competition, there's no creativity and that I need to do better than anyone else, it's a wonderful process. And the Prize itself is the process. Now, this is such an important message now with many of us in the competitive world trying to do better and better.
So I'd love to go deeper into this Leela, how we can bring it to the world, and then how we can stay focused on the task versus maybe results and other things.
How Can We Stay Focused On The Task?
Anand Mehrotra: Yeah. And especially in these times, right? Earlier before the internet people had a smaller circle, So you, people compared themselves to only a few people they knew.
And now you are, people are comparing themselves to the whole world. They are comparing themselves all the time through social media. And so this angst is this existential angst of not being enough, not doing enough has become such a present thing for a lot of human beings with dire consequences.
And so we have to have this Deep shift of perspective. Otherwise, instead of using, technology will use us. And So when you begin to have this experience of inner stillness, you start to experience self love.
You have a natural state of ease with who you are, and then you can really give yourself the liberty to express the innate gifts that you have without competing, without trying to constantly get somewhere else. So we can still have a great sense of directionality, a sense of deep purpose, a sense of contributing and adding value to life, but not at the expense of who you are because You inherently are valuable.
You start to experience that there is value in your existence. It's not a pursuit of value. But rather than an expression of the value of adding value, the kids you meet are also young people. There is always this feeling of restlessness that I need to do more, all of a sudden the whole world is in my pocket and I'm seeing what the world is doing.
Whenever you're looking at the phone you are always doing less than the world is, So naturally your mind field creates this story. Hey, feed on that same existentialism. Crisis of, Hey, what are you doing with your life? And so then there is this force of trying to get somewhere else, not knowing where we are headed.
So I think it's so important to have this present moment awareness, which is inherently fulfilling and being here now is fulfilling and joyous. Meaning is to be found only here. You can never get there. And then you start to find meaning here. You can express it and you can create fully. And living a fulfilled life, but not postponing fulfillment.
Otherwise, we create a mad world. It's a never-ending cycle.
Sharad Lal: It's like a hamster on a wheel. You're just chasing and chasing. Many of us think quite often that chasing this whole thing of just running after is also helping us achieve our potential. But if I am enjoying the present moment, maybe my ambition comes down.
Maybe I don't seek my potential. So how would you talk about this? Not completely wise thinking,
Anand Mehrotra: You see this is a flawed understanding that only fear is what inspires.
It's only said by those who haven't tasted how love inspires action. If you look at the flow state, for example, when you are in a flow state experience, flow can only happen.
When there is a state of self-forgetfulness right, there is a radical sense of presence and anybody who has access to flow state in any specific domain of activity, they will come out and tell you that when they get into that flow state, everything clicks and you have a sense of effortless ease. There is a magical thing happening, but you feel it's not you who is doing it. It's happening through you. And so we can have a whole life designed around that, not just trying to access flow in very specific domains of activity, but a life of flow, a life of unity. And when you are accessing that in your life, you actually are more productive.
You are more creative. You have a vision, a life of a visionary. And you have short term goals, you fulfill them elegantly, but not at the expense of who you are, and the expense of not chasing some utopia, because you're never going to get there.
So we have to really answer the question, what is going to truly help us live, live a fulfilled life because that's what we are after, right? And so when you begin to look at it you realize that your creativity is actually going to go up, not go down. When your action is being informed by love. Some of the greatest innovations humanity has experienced as they come out of play, they come out of this spontaneous realization. And so this present moment awareness is not about hedonism, It's not about being hedonistic, this whole idea of YOLO or whatever that's called.
It's a sense of living from a deep place of wisdom in you. And so you have a sense of directionality, naturally, wisdom includes a sense of directionality, just like the flow of the river. It's always flowing in the direction of the ocean, but it's also always here. This idea that I need to always leave here in order to get there is incorrect thinking. Because it only becomes real when it comes here. So you're not going anywhere. You're only here.
And so you can be here while elegantly also growing and evolving, not at the expense of who you are Vedic wisdom is not saying don't achieve.
But it's about how to be, and have great skill in that action, right? Instead of action that generates suffering, it's the action that generates freedom.
Sharad Lal: Very clear. And there's a clear distinction of going from a place of fear versus going from a place of flow. I'd like to touch upon one of the things you talked about earlier, which was forgiveness. And I know you've spoken many times about forgiveness also relating to joy and play.
So if you could talk a little bit more about forgiveness to yourself, to others and what it opens up in life.
Forgiveness To Yourself and To Others
Anand Mehrotra: You remember when you were a kid. You play with children, other children, and you fight. and sometimes the other child hurts you. And as long as you're feeling you're sitting in that bad mood, Oh, I got defeated or this person hurt me.
And you're carrying that bad mood and You say, be friends again and forgive. You can't, but let's say you start to move on and you start to play as a child. then. That child comes, You naturally include that child. And so the question of forgiveness is not that you don't have to as a child, you don't have to, say, okay, I forgive you.
It just naturally happens because you have that much more energy, right? So a person who is hurt cannot forgive if he or she maintains that identity, So if you hurt me and the hurt is again, not something you do. It's something that happens inside of me. And so if I carry that hurt And I maintain that identity no matter one year from now or 10 years from now I cannot forgive you I can only forgive if I'm no more to be found in that location. I'm no longer that person. I have grown.
I have more play. I have more energy. So whenever there is more play, there is more giving energy, More winning energy. And so naturally for me, forgiveness becomes more very effortless . Oh yeah, of course I forgive you because I'm not being held by you anymore by that event. And so now you're included in that playful energy of life.
And so only growth can lead to forgiveness. If a person is not truly growing, they cannot forgive. They can think about it. They can try to convince themselves, okay, I forgive you, but they won't really forget, right? They will remember it still. And so they try to get back psychologically or in some way or the other.
It happens all on the subconscious level. only growth. Lead to forgiveness. Whenever there is growth, there is natural forgiveness because you have more winning energy, You're feeling more alive, you're feeling that you're thriving in life. You have more joy in your life. So you naturally forgive the people.
Sharad Lal: What a wonderful way of looking at it. And of course, it's still Very difficult to do, but it's a great visual like you described it When you move from that location. That's where you've grown. You move from that location, that state of holding that anger And stuff. You moved on, you've moved somewhere else.
And that's when you can forgive because forgiveness isn't even a question then. It's like a kid's example that you gave. You're just in a different state and that is a growth state. And that leads to forgiveness. And that of course is the play mindset. You're not taking things too personally. You're not getting too caught up about things.
You're just moving and growing and living in the present moment. Very difficult to do, especially with Like 40, 50 years, we've not done those things and suddenly doing it, But it's good to have those visuals and see How we can slowly start incorporating some of this into our
How To Incorporate the Teachings Into Our Lives?
Anand Mehrotra: Absolutely. My teacher always said, when I said to him, he would teach me and I was running with him, and he would, sometimes I would show, that sounds very difficult. He said if you're really interested in something, stop asking. Is it difficult or is it easy?
These are absolutely useless because if I say it's easy, it's not gonna help you if I say it's difficult, it's not going to help you, right? These are because they are shifting, right? What's easy for someone might be difficult for someone else, but these are not absolute ideas. These are very related. So he always told me, don't think of things in this context, difficult or easy. Just think, is it possible?
And am I willing? And then when you are committed to that, sometimes you might find it difficult and you will. I'm still going to make progress. And sometimes you will find it easy and you're still going to make progress.
Sharad Lal: Very powerful. I love those questions. Changing it to, is it possible? And am I willing? That's the core question. Nothing else matters. And that's how you do it, So Anandji, moving on a little bit to relationships. and what I've sometimes struggled with to try and understand, the ancient wisdom talks about non-attachment.
But sometimes in relationships, it's building that bonds it. How do we incorporate these two things of non-attachment but still deep relationships?
How to Not Be Attached But Still Have Deep Relationships?
Anand Mehrotra: The word that is used in Sanskrit is Bairagya.
Sharad Lal: Okay.
Anand Mehrotra: Bairagya, non-attachment is really not because non-attachment sounds like the opposite of attachment, right? So Bairagya is not the opposite of attachment, it's the elevated state of awareness. Bairagya is not used in isolation. It's used as part of the whole system of growth.
When you are growing, you naturally start to get into a higher state of understanding. You become more mature in your love. When you are immature in your love, you don't have it, because attachment is fear.
So it's that attachment shows up as control that shows up as fear of loss that shows up as trying to go against nature shows up as not accepting what is and finding different ways.
And so it is immature. As you mature. You start to gain a greater understanding of love. Oh, love should be freeing. Then you start to gain maturity. Oh, I don't need to control. The more I control, the more I lose. So the way I can win is through surrender, not by controlling.
So you start to gain the wisdom of surrender. Then you realize, oh, the tighter I hold the sand, the lesser I have. So the way to have the sand is to keep my palms open.
That's why in India, You go to the temple, they give you the water, charanamrit. So you have to do that. It's to develop prasad buddhi, right?
To develop the attitude that everything is a gift. So receive it with open palms. Don't try to hold it tight.
As Kabira said, beautifully in his poem. Then when you come into this world. You come with your fists tightly clenched and live in such a way that you open your palms wide while you're living.
Don't wait for death to open your palms wide. This is about gaining maturity. As we gain maturity, we start to understand more about ourselves. We start to understand more about life and that naturally we can be more of the Bairagi in our love.
In English, we use the word detachment. People think detachment, she's, Oh, I have to be non attached. It's pretty confusing. So it's not about focusing on trying to be detached. No. Focus on growth.
Focus on understanding. Focus on maturing, gaining greater clarity of mind, greater clarity of heart. Then you start to find more freedom in your love. You don't try to create cages. You can be more free with your children, with your parents.
You start to be more self-sufficient. Who can be detached? Somebody who is self-sufficient. If you are self-sufficient, meaning you can manage your state. Then you can give people in your life freedom. To be who they are. Otherwise, what happens is we are, it's difficult for us to give people in our life permission to be who they are.
Why? Because we get so intertwined. We don't have, we don't take time to manage our own state. Now we want them to manage our state and people don't behave according to our expectations. People behave according to their own nature. And so it creates all kinds of complications. So when we are taking time out, To manage our own state, then you can appreciate all people's weirdness, right?
Everybody's a little weird, including you and I, we all, we are all works in progress. And so when you're taking that time, you can appreciate other people's quirkiness.
And you can have a greater sense of surrender to your family and people. Otherwise, we want you to control yourself and control their life.
Sharad Lal: Again, so deep. It's from there, you've built it up to the kind of relationship you can have with the word. Of course, it's not detachment, but it's that none, it's not a clinging kind of energy. where you can move towards non-judgment. You're not judging people. There's generosity. There are no cages.
You're accepting people for who they are. Everyone's there. You're available. That's the kind of relationship you can have with people. I think that's a great vision.
Anand Mehrotra: Yeah. And again, this is a state which is dynamic, right? And we can use the word non-attachment here, but that state is not like a static state. It's not one day you are not attached. No, it's about, you are gaining as you are maturing, you're developing more and more. even with the Things you build, You start to realize, oh, wow, this is beautiful. I'm building sand castles, like children, the kids are playing making the sand castles and then the mother calls Hey kids time to go home And then the kid gets up and walks with the mother and the sand castle he's built the waves come And wipe it out.
No trace of the sandcastle left. And so everything we build, we have to build it passionately in that sandcastle, but to be attached to that sandcastle is not attachment is ignorance, It is not understanding reality. So it's about gaining maturity. Okay. I build a sandcastle and I should build the best I can and I should enjoy it.
Let's be real. No matter what I build, it will be taken away by the ocean of time. And so I can be free in my creation. I can hold it lightly.
Sharad Lal: Elevated wisdom, like you said, just to know this is reality and accepted versus ignorance. Thank You for describing that.
And Anandji, we've touched upon so many topics. I'd like to have just a few personal questions if you don't mind. You are doing such a huge service to mankind, and you've chosen this path.
I'd love to understand your personal experiences. There are so many fulfilling things, but are there one or two things that are much more fulfilling, do you remember?
And one or two things that are very challenging to you in the path that you've chosen. Would love to understand.
What Are Some Fulfilling Things And Some Challenges In This Lifestyle?
Anand Mehrotra: The most fulfilling thing was the blessings that I received, and I keep receiving. I feel phenomenally blessed and deeply grateful. I'm always humbled by the life that I got the place and the people and just to be able to receive that and to be able to share that with the people is deeply moving and deeply fulfilling. How it can elevate people's lives and, to see them blossom and see the joy that it brings. And it's so fulfilling. And when you can, even when you see one life, you can change it positively.
It never gets old. Now you see the way I embrace the challenges. challenges. are growth, challenges are only more challenging. If you're leaning away from them, when you realize the challenges are your ally, that's how I see that whenever challenges come, I say it's the knowledge I haven't gained yet. So I'm looking forward to challenges.
And when you're looking like that, then your idea of challenges, that vocabulary starts to go away. And so my relationship to challenges is that, that it's about, okay, whenever some situation arises, which seems challenging, it's a clear sign. Okay. That's, there is a phenomenal opportunity here for growth because challenge is only that, which I don't know yet with knowledge.
I haven't gained yet. And something I need to learn here, only that's why I find it challenging. That's what I recommend. And then once you have, when you have that, then, you look back, it's not challenging, right?
Then it's all a gift because challenges only linger in your memory at challenges. If you did not learn and embrace that as a learning opportunity. When you learn and embrace that as a learning opportunity, then you look back and they don't look at challenges. They look like, oh, wow, that was such an amazing adventure.
That was such an amazing time, right? So the whole perspective on challenges, even in hindsight changes.
Sharad Lal: Very interesting perspective, Anandji. I've taken up a lot of your time. My last question to you, Anandji. I know we all think about mortality, death. At the end of your life. how would you know you've lived a really good life?
How To Know If You've Lived a Good Life?
Anand Mehrotra: I think if I would have just the way I am now with this sense of peace, a sense of I feel ready. I look forward to it. I've thought about it many times in that sense that I'm very excited for that moment and I'm, I love, I don't want people to misunderstand that somehow I'm looking, I love living and I love being here and I love this life and what I get to do and what all has been given to me and these amazing people I get to be with this phenomenal life.
But life and death for me are together, and you can only die the way you live. And so when you are living in that sense, then death is only a culmination of that. I think it's the blossoming of your life. Ultimately, we are all heading in that direction. And so if I can continue the way I am and keep learning, then death can only be like this.
And so I'm excited about it because I love life. So I have to love death then, but death is still so unique.
Sharad Lal: Absolutely. Thank you, Anandji, for, this has been one of the most enlightening hours of my life. Thank you for such a wonderful, wise conversation. Your presence, your energy, your centeredness, I can see you It just emanates so much wisdom and love. I thank you from the bottom of my heart for such a wonderful conversation, Anandji.
Anand Mehrotra: you so much. It's been such a joy and I truly enjoyed our time together and beautiful questions and how questions are what guide the whole conversation. So I truly appreciate it. It's such a beautiful work you are doing, and I truly appreciate all that you stand for and what you bring to this world.
Thanks so much.
Sharad Lal: You Anandji. Thank you. Anandji very much.
Sharad Lal: Good morning, Anandji. Welcome to How to Live. Great to have you. It's a huge honour to have you on the show. How are you doing this morning?
Anand Mehrotra: It's such a great joy to be with you.
Sharad Lal: I know you're in the beautiful little hill station of Rishikesh, it's the monsoons there, and you look nice and bright, and I'm so excited about this conversation with you. As we get started, Anandji, If you could just paint a picture of what the Vedas and the Upanishads were, what was their historical significance.
And then we can of course talk about why it is relevant today.
Historical Significance of the Vedas and Upanishads
Anand Mehrotra: You see the word Veda comes from the root of Vid, which means knowledge. So the Vedas are about the great body of knowledge that is fundamental to the human experience. From the Vedic perspective, the way out of suffering is through awareness, through knowledge. The fundamental resource in life is knowledge. And when you have the correct knowledge, then you can navigate your way through life in a very elegant manner.
Scripturally before they were written down, it's an oral tradition. The oral tradition is the primary tradition. The written tradition is only supporting the oral tradition, which is very important to realize so that we do not misunderstand and do not take the written word literally because that has caused a lot of trouble for humanity, so it's always in alliance with the oral tradition, which is fundamentally designed to help the human being grow and evolve.
So it's really the teachings that are designed. For growth, for as long as the individual is growing in both directions, growing in the direction of self-awareness and growing in the direction of external awareness. then Our impact can be of greater harmony. the Vedic teachings, there is nothing, no aspect of life, which is not touched upon, which is not included in the Vedic teaching.
So they're not specifically faith driven or ritual driven. It's not just one reductionist idea of life, but really a holistic view of life and then answering different questions, which can help us gain greater harmony.
Sharad Lal: Very fascinating. So many thousand years ago people discovered this and this was an oral tradition passed on and it's written, but it's still passed on in its oral form. So it's clearly communicated to people And they understand the context. Now, how is it becoming so much more relevant today in today's day and age in the modern context of the hustling bustling world?
Are the Vedas and Upanishads Still Relevant Today?
Anand Mehrotra: These are unique times. Now with the coming of AI, which really is gonna be a big cushion, what does it means to be a human being? If you are. only speaking about external identity and computation, then your consciousness is just a result of the firing of electrons, the firing of neurons.
So I think the most fundamental aspect of the human experience now is the spiritual experience, the subjective experience because only that subjective experience really defines what a human being is now. And so the Vedic wisdom is all about answering and harmonizing the subjective world, the real world. Our life primarily happens within us. And in this time when we are finding more and more information, more and more confusion is happening. The more information that is, the more confusion. And so I think we know a lot, which is irrelevant now.
But what we do not know is yourself. So if we want to really live a life of fearlessness, then we have to look within and the Vedic teachings are really designed to help us gain understanding of self.
Sharad Lal: What a wonderful point.
There's so much noise around us that we don't know who we are. And this makes it even more relevant than ever to be able to go within ourselves, understand who we are, and that then is a part of, like you said, knowledge, potential, and many other things. Now, for people who are starting their spiritual journey, what's a good way to get started and figure out ways to go within themselves and access some bits of the wisdom that exists out there?
Where Can We Start Our Spiritual Journey?
Anand Mehrotra: In the Vedic tradition, the first thing is the primacy of knowledge through direct experience. And that's an important distinction between information and wisdom. Wisdom is gained through direct experience. So then the spiritual path, the fundamental thing, has to be getting practice, right?
A practice of Stillness. It is not a very exciting thing in the beginning, but that's where the real magic lies. It can even be as short as 15, 20 minutes, once or twice a day. Start with that, start with the practice, and learn a technique properly.
So it can be a Kriya based technique, a meditation-based technique, any technique, which is helping you gain a deeper access to the inner field of stillness. Only then you can begin to harness the mind. Only then can you begin to make a distinction between just the noise of the mind and the true insight.
Sharad Lal: Such a good point about information versus wisdom. Wisdom is gained from actual experience and there are no shortcuts to it. Even in my own journey, it's very boring to begin with, but in that boredom, you start canceling the noise and slowly start getting a sense of things that are important to you.
In your experience, what are some interesting things that come to people if they've spent six to one year getting still, what are some realities that strike and tell them,. Oh, wow, this is interesting. This is how I've been looking at things in the wrong way. And now I can shift the way I think about it.
What Are Some Interesting Realizations Among People?
Anand Mehrotra: One of the most primary things that people begin to realize is the distinction between the self and the activity of the mind. In the untrained state, the activity of the mind totally captures the whole human experience, right?
So the awareness of the individual collapses on the content of the mind and so the subject and the object have no distinction. which keeps them from reality. So it's like this constant barrage, which is constantly flowing. So it keeps you separate from the experience of true reality. So I think one of the first things that we people start to happen is this distinction that starts.
Establish between the self and the activity and you start to realize, oh, you have a choice here where you can shift your mind, where you can, you don't have to believe everything the mind is generating, you begin to see how the mind paints a picture, which often most often is not in touch with reality.
That's a beginning point for self-mastery. then naturally a greater sense of peace, a greater sense of fearlessness starts to come because you realize the fear is all generated by the mind. So you have a greater sense of inner freedom that starts to happen.
Sharad Lal: Such an interesting point. Once you go in, you realize that your thoughts are not you.
There are two distinct things out there. These thoughts can get so exaggerated and dramatized. And that's what we see as stress. And that layer prevents us from seeing reality.
And if you're able to have the discipline of understanding this is just a layer that's been created, we can remove it And see reality, that's when we start moving forward. Buddha put it. very nicely when he talked about the second arrow syndrome, where it's the first arrow that hits you, but it's the second arrow, which is the thoughts and the dramatization, which makes it 20 times worse. you touched upon something so important that all of us go through all these thoughts to do with fear. And I know the Vedas talk a lot about fear and I also know fear is also the pathway to many things that potentially I would love to double-click if you can talk a little bit more about fear and what it can, show us as we face it.
How to Face Fear?
Anand Mehrotra: Fear is at the base of human experience and the denial of it leads to all kinds of violence and conflict. One has to acknowledge the fear that is within oneself and only then one can begin to transcend it. And fear is coming from a fundamental crisis of identity. It's an identity crisis as to who I am and where I am. Am I existing as an isolated particle in an unknown and alien universe?
And so when you begin to really look into that fear, you begin to realize that you have to answer the most fundamental questions as to who you are. And where are you? Are you just an accident of the universe? Are you living? So these are some profound questions. And if you do not answer it, then that fear stays. And no matter how much you run outside, no matter how many castles you build, no matter how much army you get, no matter how much bank balance you get, the fear is living inside of you constantly. And it can show up as different things can show up as a sense of worthlessness, this sense of existential meaninglessness, this fear of the ultimate boredom.
So we have to look into it and begin to realize the invitation of that fear is to gain answers to the fundamental questions, Who am I? Where am I? We cannot get these answers as information. As we said in the beginning, these answers can only be answered through direct experience. And only then the fear starts to fade. And instead of fear informing our actions, then it starts to be inspiration and love, which starts to inform our actions. And the effect begins. A profound shift in life.
Sharad Lal: I found it interesting that when we have this fear we are going like you said doing external things to get it away whether we could try to get more money, better jobs, etc. But in reality, It never goes away because it's not being addressed. And that's what needs to be addressed.
You have to experience it, spend some time, And then connect it to love beautifully. And I also know from a physical standpoint, which I've heard you talk about so many times, that the root chakra is where the fear sits, And then the heart chakra is where the love sits.
If you can talk a little bit about fear and love from a physical chakra standpoint as well, I would love to understand.
Fear and Love From a Physical Chakra Standpoint
Anand Mehrotra: From the yogic system, the root center Mooladhara chakra is the seat of fear. It is also the seat of ego identity and at the same time, it is the seat of infinite potential. On the other side of fear is your infinite potential. Unlocking this root chakra is about acknowledging his base identity questions, and then you start to work on it energetically, start to shift the energy up from the root up to the heart center. That's where the love starts to come online. Otherwise, before that, you don't, you have ideas about love, but not an experience of love. Even in the context of love, what you experience is fear, even in relationships, right?
People get into relationships, and then you have an idea of love. But what you experience in relation to this fear of loss and jealousy and control and all politics of relationships that come and so on. As long as that fear on the personal level is not being addressed, we really can't actually have the true experience of love. So it is that addressing a fear, which has to send energy up enough energies becomes available to the system where the heart chakra starts to come online. When the heart is coming online, incredible things start to happen within the physical system; non-local communication starts to become available.
People who have genuine connection, the experiences all the time, when we can have this experience with one or two people, imagine when the heart starts to come more and more online and we start to experience a sense of connection with the greater whole, So root chakra represents ego consciousness and heart chakra represents cosmic consciousness. you move from an identity of isolated awareness in a bag of skin to an expression of the universe.
You have this sense of greater unity with the extended reality around you. This experience of inner connection is deeply tied up to the Anahata chakra, and this experience of connection is really the beginning of all love. Connection is love.
Sharad Lal: Very profound points, Anandji, and as you were speaking, there's so much wisdom coming there. Firstly, fear also can open infinite possibilities and the path from fear to love need not be intellectual. You don't need to think about intellectuals. It could be energetic through different forms of chakra cleansing or Kundalini yoga or different forms of yoga where there is a connection between it physically, energetically, which brings out intuitive realization.
So I love that part. And I also like how he talked about love. Many of us when we think about love, we think about romantic love, which then has attachment and fear and what if this goes wrong or something happens. But you talked about infinite love where you move from singular local to universal.
I'd love to double click on that. If you can talk a little bit more about love and what is this concept of through the anahata, the heart chakra, infinite love. What can it look like and how can some of us access it?
Anahata - The Heart Chakra
Anand Mehrotra: as we start to energize the system and we start to have this heart-centered experience, you start to experience existential love. Because your identity moves from this ego identity to this sense of holistic awareness and so you begin to have this experience of being loved.
Like being held in love so that you can rest in your silence. When you rest in your silence and you rest in your being, you don't need any external stimulus to escape yourself. Because when you rest you begin to train yourself to rest in that silence. That silence is what reveals, begins to reveal to you that subtle field of love, we realize that we are alive and that it's phenomenal. intelligence at work.
There is a core intelligence at work in life. And That's love. Life is love. As you begin to realize that then your ability to love increases. Love functions in you being loving. Can you be loving? That's the law of the universe, right? Whatever you give out, you get back. But how can you give love if you don't have an experience of it?
Everybody is interested in love, but we think love is just about finding someone. No, it's about finding yourself. When you begin to find yourself, you naturally have an increase in your ability to love. You become a loving being. The more you love, the more you get it back. your life starts to be more and more whole. Love requires proper training. it's not, stone that you find on the street.
Sharad Lal: What a profound point again, Anandji, The thing that you described in the stillness, as you go deeper and deeper through training, you find that you're held in love. And that is that beautiful, profound experience. It's just difficult to explain. And people who've had it a few times and had it quite often, that then becomes the source of giving love because then it opens up to universal love. It's not necessarily what we look at as romantic love. And that's how I saw you even relating it to intelligence.
Anand Mehrotra: Yeah. That this existential love starts to come up in your base experience, there's experience of being held in love with different traditions of called grace, But grace, when people speak of grace, it's somehow spoken off as you have to be deserving of it.
And then some alien authority finds you deserving and then sends it to you. But from the Yogi perspective, grace is, at the core. Grace is, it's not given. It is, it has to be realized. So love is, it is not given. It has to be realized. Now, once that happens, when love bubbles up in your experience, then how you express it all, the primary experience of love then becomes gratefulness, and you wake up with a grateful heart.
And a grateful heart is a magnet for happiness. enough statistics a day, grateful. People are happier, healthier, and have stronger immune systems. Then you have a sense of all by the mystery of this universe. You have a natural sense of compassion that starts to arise a sense of forgiveness to yourself, self-compassion and also for others.
You begin to realize that they are business. Also struggle, and they have their own challenges, and they are also looking for the same thing that you are. Then you have a greater playfulness towards life, right? Because you don't look at life as a battle to be won.
You can either live this life as a battle, or you can live this life as a play. Now, if you have access to a field of love, then you can begin to live this life as a play. And the great thing about play is you don't have to always win. The reward of play is in play. remember as kids, when you played I just wanted it to be fun playing.
And so you realize living itself is the greatest gift. And so you have greater awareness around sustainability. It leads to a more sustainable life because you are naturally more joyous in the here and now. And so you're more creative. But that creativity is not a curse anymore. That creativity is freeing. But otherwise, we find creativity becomes a curse. Because we finally cannot rest in peace. We constantly need to do something, trying to get somewhere.
I'm not, and with this ego voice always, right? Everybody knows it. You're not doing enough. You're not enough. You're not producing enough. Look at the world. Look at them, what they're doing. This voice constantly goes on. And so this sense of creativity becomes free, more free.
And so love leads us from war to play. And it's a life of play instead of a life of war
Sharad Lal: Again, such deep connections like love leading to gratefulness, leading to happiness, which leads to awe, which then leads to playfulness, And that becomes a way of life. I love how you talk about Playfulness, Leela.
Leela means you enjoy the process, you're enjoying what you're doing, there's no competition, there's no creativity and that I need to do better than anyone else, it's a wonderful process. And the Prize itself is the process. Now, this is such an important message now with many of us in the competitive world trying to do better and better.
So I'd love to go deeper into this Leela, how we can bring it to the world, and then how we can stay focused on the task versus maybe results and other things.
How Can We Stay Focused On The Task?
Anand Mehrotra: Yeah. And especially in these times, right? Earlier before the internet people had a smaller circle, So you, people compared themselves to only a few people they knew.
And now you are, people are comparing themselves to the whole world. They are comparing themselves all the time through social media. And so this angst is this existential angst of not being enough, not doing enough has become such a present thing for a lot of human beings with dire consequences.
And so we have to have this Deep shift of perspective. Otherwise, instead of using, technology will use us. And So when you begin to have this experience of inner stillness, you start to experience self love.
You have a natural state of ease with who you are, and then you can really give yourself the liberty to express the innate gifts that you have without competing, without trying to constantly get somewhere else. So we can still have a great sense of directionality, a sense of deep purpose, a sense of contributing and adding value to life, but not at the expense of who you are because You inherently are valuable.
You start to experience that there is value in your existence. It's not a pursuit of value. But rather than an expression of the value of adding value, the kids you meet are also young people. There is always this feeling of restlessness that I need to do more, all of a sudden the whole world is in my pocket and I'm seeing what the world is doing.
Whenever you're looking at the phone you are always doing less than the world is, So naturally your mind field creates this story. Hey, feed on that same existentialism. Crisis of, Hey, what are you doing with your life? And so then there is this force of trying to get somewhere else, not knowing where we are headed.
So I think it's so important to have this present moment awareness, which is inherently fulfilling and being here now is fulfilling and joyous. Meaning is to be found only here. You can never get there. And then you start to find meaning here. You can express it and you can create fully. And living a fulfilled life, but not postponing fulfillment.
Otherwise, we create a mad world. It's a never-ending cycle.
Sharad Lal: It's like a hamster on a wheel. You're just chasing and chasing. Many of us think quite often that chasing this whole thing of just running after is also helping us achieve our potential. But if I am enjoying the present moment, maybe my ambition comes down.
Maybe I don't seek my potential. So how would you talk about this? Not completely wise thinking,
Anand Mehrotra: You see this is a flawed understanding that only fear is what inspires.
It's only said by those who haven't tasted how love inspires action. If you look at the flow state, for example, when you are in a flow state experience, flow can only happen.
When there is a state of self-forgetfulness right, there is a radical sense of presence and anybody who has access to flow state in any specific domain of activity, they will come out and tell you that when they get into that flow state, everything clicks and you have a sense of effortless ease. There is a magical thing happening, but you feel it's not you who is doing it. It's happening through you. And so we can have a whole life designed around that, not just trying to access flow in very specific domains of activity, but a life of flow, a life of unity. And when you are accessing that in your life, you actually are more productive.
You are more creative. You have a vision, a life of a visionary. And you have short term goals, you fulfill them elegantly, but not at the expense of who you are, and the expense of not chasing some utopia, because you're never going to get there.
So we have to really answer the question, what is going to truly help us live, live a fulfilled life because that's what we are after, right? And so when you begin to look at it you realize that your creativity is actually going to go up, not go down. When your action is being informed by love. Some of the greatest innovations humanity has experienced as they come out of play, they come out of this spontaneous realization. And so this present moment awareness is not about hedonism, It's not about being hedonistic, this whole idea of YOLO or whatever that's called.
It's a sense of living from a deep place of wisdom in you. And so you have a sense of directionality, naturally, wisdom includes a sense of directionality, just like the flow of the river. It's always flowing in the direction of the ocean, but it's also always here. This idea that I need to always leave here in order to get there is incorrect thinking. Because it only becomes real when it comes here. So you're not going anywhere. You're only here.
And so you can be here while elegantly also growing and evolving, not at the expense of who you are Vedic wisdom is not saying don't achieve.
But it's about how to be, and have great skill in that action, right? Instead of action that generates suffering, it's the action that generates freedom.
Sharad Lal: Very clear. And there's a clear distinction of going from a place of fear versus going from a place of flow. I'd like to touch upon one of the things you talked about earlier, which was forgiveness. And I know you've spoken many times about forgiveness also relating to joy and play.
So if you could talk a little bit more about forgiveness to yourself, to others and what it opens up in life.
Forgiveness To Yourself and To Others
Anand Mehrotra: You remember when you were a kid. You play with children, other children, and you fight. and sometimes the other child hurts you. And as long as you're feeling you're sitting in that bad mood, Oh, I got defeated or this person hurt me.
And you're carrying that bad mood and You say, be friends again and forgive. You can't, but let's say you start to move on and you start to play as a child. then. That child comes, You naturally include that child. And so the question of forgiveness is not that you don't have to as a child, you don't have to, say, okay, I forgive you.
It just naturally happens because you have that much more energy, right? So a person who is hurt cannot forgive if he or she maintains that identity, So if you hurt me and the hurt is again, not something you do. It's something that happens inside of me. And so if I carry that hurt And I maintain that identity no matter one year from now or 10 years from now I cannot forgive you I can only forgive if I'm no more to be found in that location. I'm no longer that person. I have grown.
I have more play. I have more energy. So whenever there is more play, there is more giving energy, More winning energy. And so naturally for me, forgiveness becomes more very effortless . Oh yeah, of course I forgive you because I'm not being held by you anymore by that event. And so now you're included in that playful energy of life.
And so only growth can lead to forgiveness. If a person is not truly growing, they cannot forgive. They can think about it. They can try to convince themselves, okay, I forgive you, but they won't really forget, right? They will remember it still. And so they try to get back psychologically or in some way or the other.
It happens all on the subconscious level. only growth. Lead to forgiveness. Whenever there is growth, there is natural forgiveness because you have more winning energy, You're feeling more alive, you're feeling that you're thriving in life. You have more joy in your life. So you naturally forgive the people.
Sharad Lal: What a wonderful way of looking at it. And of course, it's still Very difficult to do, but it's a great visual like you described it When you move from that location. That's where you've grown. You move from that location, that state of holding that anger And stuff. You moved on, you've moved somewhere else.
And that's when you can forgive because forgiveness isn't even a question then. It's like a kid's example that you gave. You're just in a different state and that is a growth state. And that leads to forgiveness. And that of course is the play mindset. You're not taking things too personally. You're not getting too caught up about things.
You're just moving and growing and living in the present moment. Very difficult to do, especially with Like 40, 50 years, we've not done those things and suddenly doing it, But it's good to have those visuals and see How we can slowly start incorporating some of this into our
How To Incorporate the Teachings Into Our Lives?
Anand Mehrotra: Absolutely. My teacher always said, when I said to him, he would teach me and I was running with him, and he would, sometimes I would show, that sounds very difficult. He said if you're really interested in something, stop asking. Is it difficult or is it easy?
These are absolutely useless because if I say it's easy, it's not gonna help you if I say it's difficult, it's not going to help you, right? These are because they are shifting, right? What's easy for someone might be difficult for someone else, but these are not absolute ideas. These are very related. So he always told me, don't think of things in this context, difficult or easy. Just think, is it possible?
And am I willing? And then when you are committed to that, sometimes you might find it difficult and you will. I'm still going to make progress. And sometimes you will find it easy and you're still going to make progress.
Sharad Lal: Very powerful. I love those questions. Changing it to, is it possible? And am I willing? That's the core question. Nothing else matters. And that's how you do it, So Anandji, moving on a little bit to relationships. and what I've sometimes struggled with to try and understand, the ancient wisdom talks about non-attachment.
But sometimes in relationships, it's building that bonds it. How do we incorporate these two things of non-attachment but still deep relationships?
How to Not Be Attached But Still Have Deep Relationships?
Anand Mehrotra: The word that is used in Sanskrit is Bairagya.
Sharad Lal: Okay.
Anand Mehrotra: Bairagya, non-attachment is really not because non-attachment sounds like the opposite of attachment, right? So Bairagya is not the opposite of attachment, it's the elevated state of awareness. Bairagya is not used in isolation. It's used as part of the whole system of growth.
When you are growing, you naturally start to get into a higher state of understanding. You become more mature in your love. When you are immature in your love, you don't have it, because attachment is fear.
So it's that attachment shows up as control that shows up as fear of loss that shows up as trying to go against nature shows up as not accepting what is and finding different ways.
And so it is immature. As you mature. You start to gain a greater understanding of love. Oh, love should be freeing. Then you start to gain maturity. Oh, I don't need to control. The more I control, the more I lose. So the way I can win is through surrender, not by controlling.
So you start to gain the wisdom of surrender. Then you realize, oh, the tighter I hold the sand, the lesser I have. So the way to have the sand is to keep my palms open.
That's why in India, You go to the temple, they give you the water, charanamrit. So you have to do that. It's to develop prasad buddhi, right?
To develop the attitude that everything is a gift. So receive it with open palms. Don't try to hold it tight.
As Kabira said, beautifully in his poem. Then when you come into this world. You come with your fists tightly clenched and live in such a way that you open your palms wide while you're living.
Don't wait for death to open your palms wide. This is about gaining maturity. As we gain maturity, we start to understand more about ourselves. We start to understand more about life and that naturally we can be more of the Bairagi in our love.
In English, we use the word detachment. People think detachment, she's, Oh, I have to be non attached. It's pretty confusing. So it's not about focusing on trying to be detached. No. Focus on growth.
Focus on understanding. Focus on maturing, gaining greater clarity of mind, greater clarity of heart. Then you start to find more freedom in your love. You don't try to create cages. You can be more free with your children, with your parents.
You start to be more self-sufficient. Who can be detached? Somebody who is self-sufficient. If you are self-sufficient, meaning you can manage your state. Then you can give people in your life freedom. To be who they are. Otherwise, what happens is we are, it's difficult for us to give people in our life permission to be who they are.
Why? Because we get so intertwined. We don't have, we don't take time to manage our own state. Now we want them to manage our state and people don't behave according to our expectations. People behave according to their own nature. And so it creates all kinds of complications. So when we are taking time out, To manage our own state, then you can appreciate all people's weirdness, right?
Everybody's a little weird, including you and I, we all, we are all works in progress. And so when you're taking that time, you can appreciate other people's quirkiness.
And you can have a greater sense of surrender to your family and people. Otherwise, we want you to control yourself and control their life.
Sharad Lal: Again, so deep. It's from there, you've built it up to the kind of relationship you can have with the word. Of course, it's not detachment, but it's that none, it's not a clinging kind of energy. where you can move towards non-judgment. You're not judging people. There's generosity. There are no cages.
You're accepting people for who they are. Everyone's there. You're available. That's the kind of relationship you can have with people. I think that's a great vision.
Anand Mehrotra: Yeah. And again, this is a state which is dynamic, right? And we can use the word non-attachment here, but that state is not like a static state. It's not one day you are not attached. No, it's about, you are gaining as you are maturing, you're developing more and more. even with the Things you build, You start to realize, oh, wow, this is beautiful. I'm building sand castles, like children, the kids are playing making the sand castles and then the mother calls Hey kids time to go home And then the kid gets up and walks with the mother and the sand castle he's built the waves come And wipe it out.
No trace of the sandcastle left. And so everything we build, we have to build it passionately in that sandcastle, but to be attached to that sandcastle is not attachment is ignorance, It is not understanding reality. So it's about gaining maturity. Okay. I build a sandcastle and I should build the best I can and I should enjoy it.
Let's be real. No matter what I build, it will be taken away by the ocean of time. And so I can be free in my creation. I can hold it lightly.
Sharad Lal: Elevated wisdom, like you said, just to know this is reality and accepted versus ignorance. Thank You for describing that.
And Anandji, we've touched upon so many topics. I'd like to have just a few personal questions if you don't mind. You are doing such a huge service to mankind, and you've chosen this path.
I'd love to understand your personal experiences. There are so many fulfilling things, but are there one or two things that are much more fulfilling, do you remember?
And one or two things that are very challenging to you in the path that you've chosen. Would love to understand.
What Are Some Fulfilling Things And Some Challenges In This Lifestyle?
Anand Mehrotra: The most fulfilling thing was the blessings that I received, and I keep receiving. I feel phenomenally blessed and deeply grateful. I'm always humbled by the life that I got the place and the people and just to be able to receive that and to be able to share that with the people is deeply moving and deeply fulfilling. How it can elevate people's lives and, to see them blossom and see the joy that it brings. And it's so fulfilling. And when you can, even when you see one life, you can change it positively.
It never gets old. Now you see the way I embrace the challenges. challenges. are growth, challenges are only more challenging. If you're leaning away from them, when you realize the challenges are your ally, that's how I see that whenever challenges come, I say it's the knowledge I haven't gained yet. So I'm looking forward to challenges.
And when you're looking like that, then your idea of challenges, that vocabulary starts to go away. And so my relationship to challenges is that, that it's about, okay, whenever some situation arises, which seems challenging, it's a clear sign. Okay. That's, there is a phenomenal opportunity here for growth because challenge is only that, which I don't know yet with knowledge.
I haven't gained yet. And something I need to learn here, only that's why I find it challenging. That's what I recommend. And then once you have, when you have that, then, you look back, it's not challenging, right?
Then it's all a gift because challenges only linger in your memory at challenges. If you did not learn and embrace that as a learning opportunity. When you learn and embrace that as a learning opportunity, then you look back and they don't look at challenges. They look like, oh, wow, that was such an amazing adventure.
That was such an amazing time, right? So the whole perspective on challenges, even in hindsight changes.
Sharad Lal: Very interesting perspective, Anandji. I've taken up a lot of your time. My last question to you, Anandji. I know we all think about mortality, death. At the end of your life. how would you know you've lived a really good life?
How To Know If You've Lived a Good Life?
Anand Mehrotra: I think if I would have just the way I am now with this sense of peace, a sense of I feel ready. I look forward to it. I've thought about it many times in that sense that I'm very excited for that moment and I'm, I love, I don't want people to misunderstand that somehow I'm looking, I love living and I love being here and I love this life and what I get to do and what all has been given to me and these amazing people I get to be with this phenomenal life.
But life and death for me are together, and you can only die the way you live. And so when you are living in that sense, then death is only a culmination of that. I think it's the blossoming of your life. Ultimately, we are all heading in that direction. And so if I can continue the way I am and keep learning, then death can only be like this.
And so I'm excited about it because I love life. So I have to love death then, but death is still so unique.
Sharad Lal: Absolutely. Thank you, Anandji, for, this has been one of the most enlightening hours of my life. Thank you for such a wonderful, wise conversation. Your presence, your energy, your centeredness, I can see you It just emanates so much wisdom and love. I thank you from the bottom of my heart for such a wonderful conversation, Anandji.
Anand Mehrotra: you so much. It's been such a joy and I truly enjoyed our time together and beautiful questions and how questions are what guide the whole conversation. So I truly appreciate it. It's such a beautiful work you are doing, and I truly appreciate all that you stand for and what you bring to this world.
Thanks so much.
Sharad Lal: You Anandji. Thank you. Anandji very much.