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Episode Transcript
Hi everyone - Welcome to "How to Live," a podcast that explores ways to live a good life. I'm your host, Sharad Lal, and this is Episode 44.
Today, we're going to dive into a topic that might make you consider leaving this podcast: death. But let me assure you, this is not going to be sad or morose. In fact, by the end of this episode, you might feel energised.
Like many, I used to think talking about death was taboo. I held superstitious beliefs, fearing discussing death would bring misfortune or harm to someone I love.
However, life confronted me with the deaths of people I loved, and during my healing process, I found myself compelled to explore the concept of death more deeply. As I delved into and studied death from different angles, I became fascinated by this topic.
While we humans don't have all the answers, we’ve gained substantial knowledge about death. My perception of death has changed from viewing it as a dark and terrifying place to considering the possibility of it being peaceful.
In today's episode, join me as I unravel the mysteries of death. We'll discuss near-death experiences and the insights they provide. We'll explore what scientists, psychologists, and philosophers have to say about death. And finally, we'll look at how to think about our own mortality.
Once again, I want to reassure you that this episode will be fascinating and uplifting. So, stick around and let’s explore this topic together.
Before getting into the episode
Thank you very much for supporting the podcast.
Folks in over 110 countries listen to our podcast and we’re in the top 5% in the world.
Do consider following us on your favourite podcast platform.
If you love the show - please do rate us.
Thank you in advance
Back to the episode
In the 1970s, a medical doctor and psychologist named Raymond Moody came across something really fascinating. While working as a medical student in the hospital emergency room, he would see many die under his watch.
Surprisingly several patients who were pronounced dead would later come back to life.
But what was even more surprising, were the profound experiences these people reported. They described being in a peaceful place and coming back with a stronger sense of purpose. The fact that so many people shared similar experiences made it clear to Moody that this wasn't just a coincidence. He was intrigued and decided to dig deeper.
Moody set out on a mission to learn more about these near-death experiences, or NDEs. He interviewed 150 people who had been through NDEs—folks who had been clinically dead but were revived later. What he discovered was astonishing. All of these individuals had very similar stories. They talked about leaving their bodies, going through a tunnel, encountering a bright light, and feeling immense peace and love. Some even met deceased loved ones or spiritual beings. And when they returned, they felt a deep sense of calm and clarity.
The sheer number of people independently sharing these experiences convinced Moody that these stories were not made up. His work was groundbreaking at the time, and it sparked further research into NDEs.
It also started to change my perspective on death. I began to believe that death isn't necessarily all bad, that it isn't a miserable and dark void. It could actually be a peaceful place.
If you take a moment to explore YouTube and listen to people talk about their near-death experiences, you'll find that many of them have similar accounts. From the way they talk you might be open to thinking about death differently.
Dr Brian Weiss
Now, let's venture into the 1980s and meet another fascinating individual: Dr. Brian Weiss. Dr. Weiss was as logical and analytical as they come. He had completed his medical degree from Yale and his psychiatry residency at the New York University School of Medicine. One of his patients, Catherine, was struggling with anxiety and phobias, and traditional therapy techniques weren't working.
Feeling frustrated, Dr. Weiss asked Catherine to go back to the origins of her symptoms. To his surprise, Catherine began describing her life from 4000 years ago in ancient India, providing vivid and incredibly specific details.
Dr. Weiss didn't believe her. But he decided to conduct some research by talking to experts. To his surprise, everything Catherine said about ancient India turned out to be right.
This opened his mind and as he met many other patients including children who shared detailed information that they couldn’t have known or fabricated - he started to believe that
we might have multiple lives. There could be a soul that travels from one life to another.
This understanding gave rise to the practice of past life regression therapy, which is used today.
It’s worth pointing out that NDEs and past life regression are still being studied and there isn’t consensus in the scientific community about this phenomenon.
We don't know for certain what happens during death.
Clinically we know that the brain ceases to function and all bodily functions stop.
The purpose of sharing these two stories is to add another perspective to this uncertainty about death. Many of us associate death with sadness and darkness. This is reinforced by movies, books, songs, everywhere.
This fear comes from uncertainty and assuming the worst case scenario. That’s how our brains are wired. These two stories may not instantly convert you into a believer of souls and peaceful experiences during death. However, they can hopefully plant seeds of doubt in our one-track understanding that death is inherently negative. It encourages us to question and explore alternative perspectives.
Now, if the idea of souls and peaceful experiences during death doesn't resonate with you, that's perfectly fine. However, it's essential for all of us to manage our fear surrounding death because it runs deeper than we realize.
Anthropologist Ernest Becker, in his Pulitzer Prize-winning book "The Denial of Death," beautifully describes this fear. Imagine being aware that you will eventually die. We are the only creatures with this knowledge, and this fear of death resides in our subconscious, influencing everything we do. Our worst decisions and irrational behaviors can be traced back to this deep-seated fear. Becker's work was so groundbreaking as it even challenged Freud's belief that human behavior primarily stems from sexuality.
Side note the book denial of death showed up in Woody Allen’s movie Annie Hall. He was obsessed about death and presented it to his girlfriend played by Daine Keaton during their first date.
Inspired by Becker's insights, evolutionary psychologists developed Terror Management Theory (TMT). According to TMT, the fear of death compels us to either strengthen our cultural worldview to feel a sense of belonging or enhance our self-esteem, desiring to leave a lasting impact beyond our own mortality. This can lead us to find deeper meaning and purpose in life or, conversely, to engage in conflict and aggression.
For me, the key takeaway is that if we repress thoughts of death and keep them in our subconscious, they will keep eating away at us. It's better to bring this topic into the open and actively contemplate it.
So, how should we actively address our existential fear of death?
Let's turn to the ancient Greek philosophers who lived 2500 years ago and were known for their profound insights. Epicurus, one of these philosophers, contemplated death extensively. He famously said, "While we exist, death is not present. When death is not present, we do not exist." From this perspective, fearing death is pointless since death cannot harm us while we are alive. And when we’re dead, we won't even be conscious to experience any negative feelings.
Taking this line of thinking further, the Roman philosopher Lucretius argued that we didn't exist in a conscious state before we were born, and yet we don't feel bad about that period of non-existence. Similarly, after death, we will return to a state of non-consciousness. So, why feel bad about losing consciousness after death? Lucretius reminds us that when we are dead, we won't be able to miss anything because we won't be conscious.
The stoics, known for their practicality, approached death with a mindset of "memento mori" – remember that we will die. They believed that our fear of death stems from our fear of the unknown. While we cannot control death itself, we can control our thoughts and attitudes toward it. By regularly reflecting on our own mortality, we not only normalize the concept of death, but our perspective also changes. We realize the importance of living in the present moment, understanding our limited time, and ensuring that we live a good life. Seneca eloquently expressed this idea when he said, "It is not that we have a short time to live, but that we waste a lot of it."
To sum it up, with all these diverse theories and perspectives on death, how should we approach it?
Firstly, there is some evidence suggesting that death may be a happy and peaceful place. Even if we don't believe in it, we shouldn't assume that death is automatically dark or gloomy simply because it is uncertain.
Secondly, even if we avoid talking about death, it lingers in our subconscious, generating fear and anxiety. It's better to confront and acknowledge it consciously, so we can manage our thoughts and emotions.
And thirdly, by regularly reflecting on death, normalizing it, and using it as inspiration, we give ourselves the best chance to find meaning and purpose in our lives.
The question - what happens when we die isn’t the right question. Instead What do we do until we die - is a better question.
This shifts our perspective, puts control back in our hands and empowers us to create a meaningful life for ourselves.
Action Steps
Here’s an action step we could all consider
If you’ve been a regular listener to the podcast, you will know I often ask my guests - at the end of your life how would you know you’ve lived a good life?
Take some time and ask yourself this question
See what comes up.
Note it down.
Are you currently living the life you’d be proud of on your deathbed?
If not - what changes can you make to live a good life.
Best of luck as you think about your mortality. The next episode will be out two weeks from now on July 4. Independence day in the US
For this special day we have a special American Guest.
William Irvine.
William is a leading globally recognised authority on stoicism.
His path breaking book the Guide to a Good life has been credited in bringing Stoicism to the mainstream.
We are extremely privileged to have the man himself - William Irvine - who’s appeared in world’s top podcasts and magazines in our very own podcast - How to Live.
It’s not an episode you want to miss.
Do join us for that.
Till next time.
Have a wonderful day ahead
Bye bye
Hi everyone - Welcome to "How to Live," a podcast that explores ways to live a good life. I'm your host, Sharad Lal, and this is Episode 44.
Today, we're going to dive into a topic that might make you consider leaving this podcast: death. But let me assure you, this is not going to be sad or morose. In fact, by the end of this episode, you might feel energised.
Like many, I used to think talking about death was taboo. I held superstitious beliefs, fearing discussing death would bring misfortune or harm to someone I love.
However, life confronted me with the deaths of people I loved, and during my healing process, I found myself compelled to explore the concept of death more deeply. As I delved into and studied death from different angles, I became fascinated by this topic.
While we humans don't have all the answers, we’ve gained substantial knowledge about death. My perception of death has changed from viewing it as a dark and terrifying place to considering the possibility of it being peaceful.
In today's episode, join me as I unravel the mysteries of death. We'll discuss near-death experiences and the insights they provide. We'll explore what scientists, psychologists, and philosophers have to say about death. And finally, we'll look at how to think about our own mortality.
Once again, I want to reassure you that this episode will be fascinating and uplifting. So, stick around and let’s explore this topic together.
Before getting into the episode
Thank you very much for supporting the podcast.
Folks in over 110 countries listen to our podcast and we’re in the top 5% in the world.
Do consider following us on your favourite podcast platform.
If you love the show - please do rate us.
Thank you in advance
Back to the episode
In the 1970s, a medical doctor and psychologist named Raymond Moody came across something really fascinating. While working as a medical student in the hospital emergency room, he would see many die under his watch.
Surprisingly several patients who were pronounced dead would later come back to life.
But what was even more surprising, were the profound experiences these people reported. They described being in a peaceful place and coming back with a stronger sense of purpose. The fact that so many people shared similar experiences made it clear to Moody that this wasn't just a coincidence. He was intrigued and decided to dig deeper.
Moody set out on a mission to learn more about these near-death experiences, or NDEs. He interviewed 150 people who had been through NDEs—folks who had been clinically dead but were revived later. What he discovered was astonishing. All of these individuals had very similar stories. They talked about leaving their bodies, going through a tunnel, encountering a bright light, and feeling immense peace and love. Some even met deceased loved ones or spiritual beings. And when they returned, they felt a deep sense of calm and clarity.
The sheer number of people independently sharing these experiences convinced Moody that these stories were not made up. His work was groundbreaking at the time, and it sparked further research into NDEs.
It also started to change my perspective on death. I began to believe that death isn't necessarily all bad, that it isn't a miserable and dark void. It could actually be a peaceful place.
If you take a moment to explore YouTube and listen to people talk about their near-death experiences, you'll find that many of them have similar accounts. From the way they talk you might be open to thinking about death differently.
Dr Brian Weiss
Now, let's venture into the 1980s and meet another fascinating individual: Dr. Brian Weiss. Dr. Weiss was as logical and analytical as they come. He had completed his medical degree from Yale and his psychiatry residency at the New York University School of Medicine. One of his patients, Catherine, was struggling with anxiety and phobias, and traditional therapy techniques weren't working.
Feeling frustrated, Dr. Weiss asked Catherine to go back to the origins of her symptoms. To his surprise, Catherine began describing her life from 4000 years ago in ancient India, providing vivid and incredibly specific details.
Dr. Weiss didn't believe her. But he decided to conduct some research by talking to experts. To his surprise, everything Catherine said about ancient India turned out to be right.
This opened his mind and as he met many other patients including children who shared detailed information that they couldn’t have known or fabricated - he started to believe that
we might have multiple lives. There could be a soul that travels from one life to another.
This understanding gave rise to the practice of past life regression therapy, which is used today.
It’s worth pointing out that NDEs and past life regression are still being studied and there isn’t consensus in the scientific community about this phenomenon.
We don't know for certain what happens during death.
Clinically we know that the brain ceases to function and all bodily functions stop.
The purpose of sharing these two stories is to add another perspective to this uncertainty about death. Many of us associate death with sadness and darkness. This is reinforced by movies, books, songs, everywhere.
This fear comes from uncertainty and assuming the worst case scenario. That’s how our brains are wired. These two stories may not instantly convert you into a believer of souls and peaceful experiences during death. However, they can hopefully plant seeds of doubt in our one-track understanding that death is inherently negative. It encourages us to question and explore alternative perspectives.
Now, if the idea of souls and peaceful experiences during death doesn't resonate with you, that's perfectly fine. However, it's essential for all of us to manage our fear surrounding death because it runs deeper than we realize.
Anthropologist Ernest Becker, in his Pulitzer Prize-winning book "The Denial of Death," beautifully describes this fear. Imagine being aware that you will eventually die. We are the only creatures with this knowledge, and this fear of death resides in our subconscious, influencing everything we do. Our worst decisions and irrational behaviors can be traced back to this deep-seated fear. Becker's work was so groundbreaking as it even challenged Freud's belief that human behavior primarily stems from sexuality.
Side note the book denial of death showed up in Woody Allen’s movie Annie Hall. He was obsessed about death and presented it to his girlfriend played by Daine Keaton during their first date.
Inspired by Becker's insights, evolutionary psychologists developed Terror Management Theory (TMT). According to TMT, the fear of death compels us to either strengthen our cultural worldview to feel a sense of belonging or enhance our self-esteem, desiring to leave a lasting impact beyond our own mortality. This can lead us to find deeper meaning and purpose in life or, conversely, to engage in conflict and aggression.
For me, the key takeaway is that if we repress thoughts of death and keep them in our subconscious, they will keep eating away at us. It's better to bring this topic into the open and actively contemplate it.
So, how should we actively address our existential fear of death?
Let's turn to the ancient Greek philosophers who lived 2500 years ago and were known for their profound insights. Epicurus, one of these philosophers, contemplated death extensively. He famously said, "While we exist, death is not present. When death is not present, we do not exist." From this perspective, fearing death is pointless since death cannot harm us while we are alive. And when we’re dead, we won't even be conscious to experience any negative feelings.
Taking this line of thinking further, the Roman philosopher Lucretius argued that we didn't exist in a conscious state before we were born, and yet we don't feel bad about that period of non-existence. Similarly, after death, we will return to a state of non-consciousness. So, why feel bad about losing consciousness after death? Lucretius reminds us that when we are dead, we won't be able to miss anything because we won't be conscious.
The stoics, known for their practicality, approached death with a mindset of "memento mori" – remember that we will die. They believed that our fear of death stems from our fear of the unknown. While we cannot control death itself, we can control our thoughts and attitudes toward it. By regularly reflecting on our own mortality, we not only normalize the concept of death, but our perspective also changes. We realize the importance of living in the present moment, understanding our limited time, and ensuring that we live a good life. Seneca eloquently expressed this idea when he said, "It is not that we have a short time to live, but that we waste a lot of it."
To sum it up, with all these diverse theories and perspectives on death, how should we approach it?
Firstly, there is some evidence suggesting that death may be a happy and peaceful place. Even if we don't believe in it, we shouldn't assume that death is automatically dark or gloomy simply because it is uncertain.
Secondly, even if we avoid talking about death, it lingers in our subconscious, generating fear and anxiety. It's better to confront and acknowledge it consciously, so we can manage our thoughts and emotions.
And thirdly, by regularly reflecting on death, normalizing it, and using it as inspiration, we give ourselves the best chance to find meaning and purpose in our lives.
The question - what happens when we die isn’t the right question. Instead What do we do until we die - is a better question.
This shifts our perspective, puts control back in our hands and empowers us to create a meaningful life for ourselves.
Action Steps
Here’s an action step we could all consider
If you’ve been a regular listener to the podcast, you will know I often ask my guests - at the end of your life how would you know you’ve lived a good life?
Take some time and ask yourself this question
See what comes up.
Note it down.
Are you currently living the life you’d be proud of on your deathbed?
If not - what changes can you make to live a good life.
Best of luck as you think about your mortality. The next episode will be out two weeks from now on July 4. Independence day in the US
For this special day we have a special American Guest.
William Irvine.
William is a leading globally recognised authority on stoicism.
His path breaking book the Guide to a Good life has been credited in bringing Stoicism to the mainstream.
We are extremely privileged to have the man himself - William Irvine - who’s appeared in world’s top podcasts and magazines in our very own podcast - How to Live.
It’s not an episode you want to miss.
Do join us for that.
Till next time.
Have a wonderful day ahead
Bye bye