Contact Simon Bowen
Related episodes
#059 Creativity at work with Eshan Ponnadurai
Spotify: https://howtolive.life/ep59spotify
Apple Podcasts: https://howtolive.life/ep59apple
Episode Transcript
The transcript is computer generated. There may be errors.
Sharad Lal: Hi, everyone. Welcome to how to live a podcast that explores ways to live a good life. I'm your host Sharad Lal. This is episode 74. Today, we'll dive into understanding life Through geometry and shapes. Our guest is the world's leading authority on visual models that sell. Simon Bowen. Simon is the founder of the models method, a groundbreaking approach that helps business owners create powerful million dollar visual models. He's the creator, the trademark genius model. Which has received widespread claims across multiple organisations. A deep thinker.
Simon is celebrated for bringing wisdom to life through visual models. Having worked with fortune 500 companies, governments, the military and the private sector. In our conversation, We explore how visuals enhance our understanding of complex concepts. How to create impactful visual models and the depth of thinking they can bring. Plus Simon we'll do a live session with a current business idea I'm working on and transform it into a visual model. Before we dive in.
Thank you very much for your support. We're in the top 3% of all podcasts. And with listeners across one 40 countries. If you haven't already, please do follow us now. Let's welcome. The incredible Simon Boban.
Sharad Lal: Hi, Simon. Welcome to the How to Live podcast. How are you doing this afternoon in Perth?
Simon Bowen: Fantastic. Thank you. It's finally a little warmer.
Sharad Lal: It's very warm in Singapore as well. It's so good to have you on the podcast. I remember listening to your keynote, two months back and not only me, everyone in the room was fascinated. And just for the folks listening, Simon has a very unique way of doing keynotes. He walks up with an iPad and starts sketching out models and explaining concepts.
It's such a powerful way of understanding concepts at its depth. So Simon, maybe let's start there. What motivated you to use a visual way of explaining? Is there a backstory to it?
Simon Bowen: I've always Drawn to explain things and then that evolved into models and I assumed everybody else did that I didn't really realise they didn't until you know Probably 10 to 15 years ago people started saying could you teach us how to do models the way you do it? I grew up in country, Western Australia in really small towns. Once you get your licence and you're going to drive out to visit your uncles on the farm or whatever, say to dad, well, how do I get to this place?
And he would grab a stick and draw a map in the ground and go, well, this is how you get there. you don't get to take the map with you. You just got to remember it. I grew up around a lot of handy people, and if they were going to build something, they would just sketch it out on a bit of paper first.
So there's this very logical process you want to conceptualise something that's going to become a real thing in the physical world, you draw it out on paper first. and that's one of the deeper principles that sits behind models.
that we create as people. is an idea first, like this technology that you and I are using, but its first appearance in the physical world is usually as a drawing on paper or these days in a CAD or a design program So there's actually a metaphysical pathway between the idea in the head, a drawing on paper, and then.
The physical thing. Children. At a very young age, the first thing they put on paper are drawings. And their parents go, that's wonderful, and they frame them. so there's a lot of emotional connection to drawing. I started life working in electrics and electronics. and, You can't design an electronic circuit or diagnose in a circuit without a circuit diagram, which is a model of the circuit on paper.
I think my brain has just been shaped to think visually. And a lot of people are visual auditory and kinesthetic learners, the fact is 83 percent of the cues that the brain gets from the world around us comes through the optic nerve.
We actually are all visual receivers.
We use imagery as humans to imagine and to recall. so I just started using models to do work. Then I became a lecturer,teaching physics, chemistry, and electronics.
The fastest way to teach physics and particularly formulas is with little models. as I ventured through the executive world and leadership and then consultancy, it was just the natural way I communicated. And I honestly just assumed it did. but I understand now why I had such a high strike rate as a salesperson and everything else because nobody was, I was using sketch pads instead of notepads and I drew in front of potential clients and they'd say, could I get a copy of that?
I had a camera I used to carry around with me. I'll take a photo and I tear the page out and give it to them. And I've just turned them into an internal salesperson to go back to their organisation with these models that I just drew.
Whereas a lot of people meet with that forward scout and they don't equip them to go back and have the conversation. it was just always the way I worked and. It's a really powerful way.
visual models have this incredible kind of superpower effect. They're really a system for thinking and a system for influence. they give framing to deeper, more profound thinking.
great leaders, speakers, messengers, coaches, consultants,principally we have to be able to, create powerful depth of thinking and communication that influences people and causes them to make some choices,
Sharad Lal: Very powerful, Simon. And you were so fortunate to have that training in visual models. Like you said, it comes naturally to us, but you trained in it. you worked on it for many years because of which you developed that skill. Many of us haven't. And now you then take it as a superpower and help people with it.
Simon Bowen: Absolutely. People look at a visual model and think, Oh, it's just a model. But there are so many layers of psychology and almost philosophy inside of models.
So when I'm thinking of a model, the first thing I'm actually thinking about is what is the geometry that would tell this story?Many dimensions to this are there? I'm actually thinking about geometry because geometry is pretty magical.
I'm actually a science geek. And the world is principally maths and geometry, let's say you have to communicate something to somebody, and there are three key components to this, and you must have all three, then you better use a triangle.
you lose one of those sides, the whole thing collapses, right? But if you don't have to have all three, use a three circle men diagram, right? gives the dimension, it gives the dynamic.
So the dynamic is things like, is this an expanding concept that we're dealing with or narrowing? is it continuous? Is it a pathway? Is it singular? Is it a continuum? Or whatever.
Sometimes I might try two or three different shapes to find the one that I want. When I feel pretty confident the shape is going to work, I just start playing with the content. There's really four levels of thinking about that kind of matter. so the first level of thinking is context.
context is all about relevance. Everything we do as humans requires context. if I come to work one day and I'm just not into it, so I, I bulge around all day, or not bulge around, I just don't work that fast, and I have big periods of distraction and things like that,
The context is perhaps laziness. But if I come to work one day and I'm easily distracted and I have big periods where I'm not doing anything, but I have just found out that day that one of my dearest friends has passed away, the context is not laziness. The context is sadness. The context behind everything gives meaning.
the geometry, I'm looking for, is the context in this model? Where am I going to represent the context? I try to keep it in the middle of the model. It's really telling a story from where the problem situation or issue is right now, to where it is now. Could be. The second level of thinking is concept.
What's the concept? What's the idea that's going to get it done? And then the third level of thinking is content, action. Let's do it, right? Now there's a fourth level of thinking which is important, but a lot of people don't think about that, and that is contrast. a conversation with one person, things that are in contrast, that are not even a part of this, keep sneaking into the conversation. has left the conversation or never made it in the first place.
Someone threw a concept up, which sounded like a good idea. And in a heart in half a beat, we're down into the content in the weeds. no wonder the conversation goes off rails, no one argues about the need, the problem, the why, which is context.
People seldom argue over the problem,
People only ever argue over the solution because they're usually looking at it through their lens and through their context. You bring people together by keeping context front and centre, you explore all the concepts.
The content I'm trying to build into the model is context and concept. And I want to do that so cleanly that contrast, what is not in the model, becomes obvious.I studied stage magic and comedy, the two most engaging art forms for And they're both based on this idea of what's really happening is, here's an old paradigm. set up the joke or the trick. Punch line or reveal. Boom! In a half a beat, collapse the paradigm and introduce the new paradigm. We call it the punch line effect.
when people look at a model and go, Oh, it's just a two by two matrix, four squares. it's far from that because it's all about the delivery. The other thing that happens, Sharon is, someone will put four squares on a bit of paper and then put something inside the squares and go, I've got a model.
No, you don't. You have a list of four ones in each box. What is the horizontal dimension about? And what is the vertical dimension about? And why does the interaction of those two dimensions, around one quadrant cause that thing that you've got inside the quadrant?
Are we trying to get from the bottom left corner of that two by two matrix to the top right corner? What is the direction of the paradigm shift that's what makes a model?
when I am through the process of capturing the core models of their business. one of my flagship models, a model called the genius
can capture the entire genius of a company in one model. Every part of that model matters, every bit of overlapping area, every interaction, and that's why they create such powerful kinds of conversations.
there's a lot of thinking inside
Sharad Lal: Yes. Thanks.Simon, I had a fun idea. If, if your game, I'm working on a problem. Should I just put it out there for us to see the context concept, and let's just try it out and see what happens.
Simon Bowen: Yeah. Let's see what happens.
Sharad Lal: so I'm working on this particular thing where people hit midlife, like people hit their forties and they work for 20, 25 years and They've lost the spark they once had, and they're also unsure how to go to the next level in their career, in their peak and the different people now.
they're looking at not just performance. They're looking at purpose. They're looking at family. They're looking at relationships. I was trying to create a model for this context of people. How can they come in, discover who they are, and be more conscious about where they want to go from a whole life standpoint.
What could be ways to, yeah, approach this?
Simon Bowen: I'll try and describe the model in words. if there's something that I want to use, but the starting point really though is, what you've just described to me,is concept and some content.
Sharad Lal: You've said people hit
Simon Bowen: I think you said they might have had some success, to discover what the next part of their life is going to be: family, relationships, purpose and things like that. then you said some other things, which is almost getting into content, some of the things that people could do. But the bigger contextual question is, why does that even matter?
Sharad Lal: I can give a little bit more on the context. As they mature, some of them had success, but they realised the success hasn't gotten them the fulfilment they're looking for. They think they're working in the corporate world. They're like a cog in the wheel. They're not really making an impact.
Why are they here in life? What's the impact they need to make? That's one level of thought. And the second level of thought is I have 20 more years to work. How do I shape my life? I'm a very different person to someone who started out a career in their twenties. What should I think about my life?
Simon Bowen: contextual thinking is you've really only caught context when you catch it in the fewest number of words.
Everything has a pattern to prove that,we start thinking about what's the most random thing we can think of? And luck seems pretty random. In fact, it's not. There are patterns to the lottery. in terms of the numbers that win but you can't choose the same numbers every week.
we uncovered these patterns and I got to a medical statistician friend of mine to run an algorithm that allows you to win division three and four, three weeks out of four,
there's a way to mark the card and choose the numbers statistically,
We also found a bunch of other research that allowed us to enter competitions to win cars and trips and things like that. And to date, we've won about a million and a half dollars worth of prizes.
one of the big things is, the competitions that say, Hey, in 25 words or less, do you want a new car? tell us why. And most people say, I've got my old car broken down and it's not going to last.
I'd love a new car. But we discovered that they're actually running these competitions, not to make more sales, but to get consumers to give them great marketing taglines.
The question is, why is it 25 words or less? And the pattern there is, if you use someone's name, they hear about the next 24 words.just do it. The three word tag is the most powerful communication tag on the planet. and so 25 words is the most. 10 words is better. Three is even better.
So usually when I'm asking people, what is the context of that? I want it in or less.
The right question is why does this matter? told me some stuff and it's close to context, context needs to punch hard. Okay.
Sharad Lal: They are stuck.
Simon Bowen: You just keep asking why. Why does it matter if they're stuck? Who actually cares? Why is that even important?
Sharad Lal: Uncomfortable, restless, existential,
Simon Bowen: Why is that happening?
Sharad Lal: looking for some meaning. I want to be relevant.
Simon Bowen: right? Everyone talks about meaning and relevance. your why and relevance, they're all concepts.
Sharad Lal: Why do humans find meaning and find purpose? To feel useful.
Simon Bowen: Great. So what if the context was your life should matter more than you could ever have expected it to?
Sharad Lal: Do you hear the difference? Completely.
Simon Bowen: Let me just pretend to be you, right? Talking to this. and I'm going to drop this contextual truth bomb on people. your life should matter more than you ever could have expected it to. So when you were a child, you didn't have to think about this stuff. life mattered if you were loved And then as you became a teenager, Your life mattered if you fit it in as you became, young adult your life mattered if you achieve some things and then, if you started a family and had children, a cycle, your life mattered you're no longer the child being loved by your parents, but you are the parent being loved by your child, but your life absolutely mattered because you had. a human to protect and to nurture in the world. so you've got to provide, people think, oh, I've got to buy a house. No, that's just Maslow's hierarchy, find some shelter. get a house, put food on the table, and for a lot of people that plays out through to about 40, their life really matters just because of the normal rhythm of life, right?
what happens at about 40, a lot of people have achieved a lot of the things they're going to do in life. Their children are starting to become more independent. and then the question becomes, what now? the first mountain of life, is that first half of life, where
you often reach personal success, but then in the second mountain of life, you start to realise that mountain's much bigger. Who knew that the second mountain in life was going to be much bigger. And you realise actually that maybe you were meant to be here for something greater than yourself.
maybe the measure of whether your life mattered more than you could have expected it to, was you did something greater than yourself. you had relationships that were greater than yourself. You had, impact that was greater than yourself. You made a contribution that was greater than yourself.
You learned more than you ever thought you could possibly learn. what most people have realised in this midlife, Which is why it's a crisis.
In the second half of life, you have to make a choice you could have ever expected to, and some people struggle with making that choice. So what we need to think about what do you need to do to make the choices that allow your life to matter more than you could have ever expected it to in the second half of life in whatever direction you want to take that charity, business, entrepreneurialism, sporting pursuits, family, whatever direction you're going to have some choices to make.
the problem with midlife crisis. People fundamentally don't like making choices. So here's a concept, the number one challenge with midlife crisis. is the ability to make choices at a deep enough level that you get past the emotional barriers
Sharad Lal: Um, Um, you, that makes you risk averse.
Simon Bowen: You can only climb that second mountain where you have some sort of impact greater than yourself if you're willing to take a risk. They are the only people that get to the top of that second mountain. The big contextual question is, do you want your life to matter more than you could have ever expected it to?
Are you willing to make the choices and take the risk? And if you are, talk about what that looks like and some of the concepts that might allow you to do that, but make it as safe as possible, some risks to be taken. imagine I was running a program on helping people at
As you hear me talking about that, recognizing I really don't know anything about that at all.
Sharad Lal: I was going to ask you that. Have you thought about it, all the things you just said, or it was your thinking mode
Simon Bowen: I'm just constantly bringing them back to context. If you listen back to this, take notice of how many times I've said your life should matter more than you could have ever expected. I've gone back to context, brought it back into the conversation.
the first half of your life, you didn't have to think about how to make your life matter more than you could ever expect it to because life demanded it of You had people relying on you and everything else, but in the second half of life, if you haven't taken risks, nothing is relying on you.
You're not going to do something bigger than yourself.
the major problem with the midlife crisis, notwithstanding any other. mental well being, or mental health,difficulties. A midlife crisis is fundamentally an issue of choice and you've got to be able to get below the emotions that are stopping you from making choices.
Now I could have a model that talks about the trajectory of life. I could perhaps have two mountains, the first mountain of life and the second mountain of life, and in between is this valley of despair. called midlife and people are standing at the top of the first mountain and they can see the second mountain and they want to get there but they can also see the valley of despair down below them they know they've got to go down before they even start climbing up again and they go I don't want to do that.
I'll just stay at the top of my and I'll get to the end and feel unfulfilled. If I had just taken the risk to go down into the Valley of Despair, how do I go into the Valley of Despair with a level of safety?
Am I willing to, you've got to get below the emotional condition, I know it's going to be hard. I know it's going to make me uncomfortable and people might judge me, but I'm going to go for it. Because the other side is so much more promising. That's emotional posture and choice.
There's lots of ways I can show that in models, and I haven't had any conversation at all about content. if you stay at the top of the first mountain and don't leave. You just live the rest of your life as if you're 40. on repeat until you die. Do you want to do that? Or do you want to make your life matter more than you ever could have expected?Everyone's talking about meaning and finding your why and everything else. Most people just want their life to matter to someone, somehow,
you're going to have to go into the Valley of Despair and climb the second mountain, n figure out what that looks like for you. and then take that direction. What's the concept? you're going to need to take some risks. You're going to have to make some choices.
You're going to have to dig in, to emotional resilience and stability. And you should try and find some ways of doing it as safely as possible and minimise the amount of risk, but there are going to be risks. So you've got to go down to the valley of despair. Can someone walk with you?
Can someone carry the bag for you as you climb that second mountain and hand you what you need as you need it? Are there mentors that could help you, et cetera. The best mentors say, I'll carry the backpack and I'll just give you what you need out of the backpack when you need it and you focus on climbing. and all I'm doing, Sharad, is, context, concept, context, concept, every now and again, contrast, context, concept.
Sharad Lal: Wow, that makes a lot of sense. And it's just sparked so many thoughts. And I won't take more free consulting. I'm more tempted to.
I thought it was a great idea to have a play with a real example, It was absolutely worth the excitement. It's very useful for me. And if you're selling it, I would want to do that program. I can see how the context and contrast itself Lends to it. then of course the concept can come. I was wondering, even when you think about stuff, you say things that come visually to you.
And that was interesting to me . This is like a triangle, an inverted triangle, a pie chart, a thing. How does that work?
Simon Bowen: anyone that does complex work and, if you're selling a product or service where the prospects situation, isn't easily known,
you almost do it intuitively. That's a complex sale, right? There's an explanation needed for people to understand real value.
We use so much language that is visually based. no one says I have difficulty getting someone to hear the value of what I do. They always say we have difficulty getting people to see the value of what I do. then you better give them a picture.
Sharad Lal: There are three levels of problem that people have, The first level of problem is the known problem. I know what the problem is, and you know I know what the problem is,go to the dentist, and I go, I've got a bad toothache, and it's killing me, can you fix my toothache?
Simon Bowen: Absolutely, that's the known problem. value that addresses that is fixed. We've got to fix that toothache. Fix is we've got to fix an immediate problem or pain. It's immediate, we've got to fix it right now.
The second problem is, it's a known but hidden problem. You know what the problem is. I know what the problem is, you don't want to talk about it, So I'm looking at your teeth as your dentist. you've got toothache, I can also tell from your teeth that you have very poor dental hygiene, you probably eat too much sugar we're going to have a conversation about that,
But that's not a conversation you want to have, you come in with a bad toothache and you're like, I just can't imagine what caused it.I'm looking as a dentist and I know exactly what's caused it, now I need to introduce a prevent type value.
prevent is about protecting you from medium term risk. anything over the next six to 12 months. there's two types of risk. There's positive risk, which is missing out on an opportunity, FOMO, the fear of missing out, the risk of risk is harm. Something bad could happen to you.
So removing the risk of harm. if, fix is a prescription. prevent is like insurance, right? so I need to say to you, Sharad, I need to see you every six months
The third type of problem is the unknown problem. This is stuff I know that you actually don't know, and this is the deepest level of problem, and this is an improved type value. I can improve something that you already think is pretty good,
Sharad, we've got you stabilised. You've got fabulous dental health and hygiene, but it's just not that hard for us to straighten your teeth or for us to whiten them. could actually have a million dollar smile. It could be way better than you're ever expecting.
so fix, prevent, improve. are the three types of value,
The question was how do I get into this visual thinking that's going on in my head. I've been doing it for so long, I actually hear conversations in models.
Sharad Lal: heh, heh, heh, heh, heh,
Simon Bowen: As I'm reading a book, a As I have conversations with people, a model is appearing.
I carry in my head this hierarchy of problems or needs. Below is the concept.
As we get lower, what are the tasks and activities? every time I'm listening to a conversation. I'm running through thoughts in my mind about how many dimensions there are. To this conversation, I've got a rule that,never any more than five dimensions and ideally no more than three. I don't mean dimensions as in 3D, in the smallest number of dimensions as I
visually in my head I'm thinking about levels from highest level thinking to lowest level thinking. I'm thinking about how many dimensions are in play. Can I have fewer dimensions than that in play? I'm starting to think about is this an expanding Kind of idea that started narrow at the bottom and it's getting wider and wider at the top, or did it start narrow at the top and it's getting wider and wider at the bottom, or is it sideways, or is it a continuous kind of loop?
oh, the infinity diagram would be cool. every now and again, I'll just jump on the internet and I'll Google geometric shapes because it gives me ideas.
I've got a pretty vast library of geometry that I could use for models in my head these days. So I just know what shapes are going to work.
We're really storytelling inside geometry. I have a pretty good feeling now for the kind of geometry that tells different kinds of stories.
I built a lot of models live in front of people. but if I build a model in my office, I use it that day. With somebody on a call in the room or something because I want to get feedback on it as fast as I can Which means I'm willing to risk that someone will say I don't agree with that model But I want the model to be as right as it possibly can be
I test fast which means I have no attachment to whether I'm right or wrong. I see the models as having a separate identity to me.
Sharad Lal: You have to go to people for this? you know that, all right, now I have a model. These five people I'm gonna call.
Simon Bowen: I'm on zoom every day with people if I've built a model. find a way to get it into those conversations. So testing the model in a live environment, if it works,
I'm very happy to walk on stage as a speaker without having a safety net and just rely on what I end up drawing on my iPad, and that it's going to work, right? But you build that skill, you build the muscle. the best speakers can do that, but that's spoken and worked
You need to have this level of confidence. ego, humble swagger. One of the mistakes I see a lot of people making is they'll write a dissertation inside the model.
Sharad Lal: That's the thing. Yeah.
Simon Bowen: They'll put 10 words where they need two,
So I've consciously worked on the ability to create intellectual shortcuts. I've There's a lot of skill building that in a lot of
People don't want to hear that, I did the work. I practise. I went and studied stage magic and comedy and I practised the idea of dropping a punchline, like I've consciously gone after this,
Sharad Lal: it shows the way you capture depth in these models. And you were talking about various layers. Is there anything you do? I know it comes naturally to you to capture the depth of the story into that simple three dimensional model dimensional world.
Simon Bowen: yeah, in marketing, you've got to get a great headline, right?
Yes. to come up with a headline once.
the great copywriters write a hundred headlines. they don't write one and go, that's good. They write a hundred or two hundred and then they test them. So I'm looking for the intellectual shortcuts to capture real depth, I have a rule. I want to try and get it in no more than five words.
I'd love it in three. Two's even better. I might test10 or 20 different ways of saying that, what happens now when I'm living in front of people, there's two things going on.
Particularly if it's interactive, often someone in the audience gives me the depth.
The whole room thinks we're talking at surface level. Someone says something over on the side, and I know that's what the base is going to be. So I park that thought.
I've taken what someone said in five to 10 words and turned it into three and gone, is it about this? it's a combination of, doing the work, in today's world, a lot of people don't want to hear
once you've done the work and you've got that ability, it's just trusting yourself,
The worst that could happen is you learn something. That's not a bad thing, you might have a setback at that moment, but you're trying to climb the second mountain,you are going to get fatigued and have some bad days. but what is true for me is that the model holds me anchored and centred.
The model brings me back to where I was, like I can drift off in a direction, the geometry always brings me back. so I can bring the audience back or I can bring the thinking back to, okay, now let's get back to this thing.
Sharad Lal: We've talked so much and we can go on, but I thought before we end, I just want to touch on one topic. You have multiple options in terms of how you could have created your business. What have you lent into and how did that choice get shaped?
Simon Bowen: It's an interesting question. We had a mainstream general management consulting business.and started out as a training company. and I became pretty acutely aware very early that.
I want to be in a marketplace where I can own a place that is mine. I wanted to be the sage. I needed to have a style of business and a way of showing up.
I think one of the most powerful business models in the world is the information business, low inventory, not a whole lot of stock required.
you make a big difference to people if you're sharing powerful insights, information and mentoring that then other people can act on. The thing I love about that industry is your clients often go and do more with what you've helped them with.
how I can help the world, but I can't do it.
in a big enough way, but my clients can. So I rattled through types of industries.
I started thinking about the markets I want to play
I want to play in the biggest market that I can play in and I know with some certainty that it's hard to make a profit in your own backyard.
Sharad Lal: Interesting.
Simon Bowen: It's called the curse of familiarity.
In fact, when you work with an organisation, if you work with the executive team and then the next level down and the next level down, at some point, you are going to suffer the curse of familiarity in that organisation.
we should try somebody else just to see who else is around. made the conscious decision. I was going to work in markets that were outside my own backyard, which meant Australia. So we had run a successful consulting business here, but we just jumped straight to the U S and our business model has always been always about the network that we're building in terms of variety and perspective. We wanted a network across as many industries and perspectives as we possibly could.
I coined this phrase buyer safety. I think business is the most powerful force for good on the planet if the right people are leading it.
That means selling should be the most noble thing we do because the sale is where the service starts. If they don't buy from you, if a surgeon doesn't sell the surgery, the healing doesn't start. the customer should feel safer with you at every step of the sales process, than they would with anyone else.
So we've created this approach to selling that hangs off buyer safety. instead of making a loud promise to the marketplace, what if you made a quiet promise? When you lower your voice and speak softer, people lean in. if you're standing on stage, say as a speaker, professional speaker, you're shouting at the audience. hearing you. just loud
But if you lean in, lower your tone, speaking to your microphone, people lean in. are more responsive to the soft, quiet promise than they are to the loud promise. Hey, it's the best in the world. We're the number one, we're the thought leader, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. so I wanted to be in markets that allowed me to bring that kind of Approach to business to the marketplace.
And
I'm really clear about what the business is. then it's just about how you open up markets that you want to play in.
The contextual question for business isn't what product do I want to bring to the marketplace or how do I get it sold? The contextual question is what playground do I want to play in?
Sharad Lal: Because different playgrounds have different needs, right? Australia has 27 million people. California is 50 million over twice our population, right? businesses don't have a noise problem in the marketplace, but you do in the U S there's so much noise, right? So what market do you want to play in?
Simon Bowen: I know I can help people get above the noise. Makes sense. I'd go and play in a marketplace where there's a lot of noise.
So it's pretty interesting.
Sharad Lal: I know we're running short of time, if you have time, I'm very keen if there's, you talked about that soft approach to sales. What exactly is that? Like, how do you do that?
Simon Bowen: yeah. The industrial age of selling, came out of the door to door vacuum cleaning salespeople.
It was called foot in the door selling, where the sole of the shoe was wider than the actual foot of the shoe. They'd go and knock on doors house to house during the day, because the little woman of the house was at home not working and they could get them, they could manipulate them into buying a vacuum cleaner while the man of the house was out.
dreadfully misogynistic view of that era. They knew if they could get the door open and then put their foot in the door, they could slam the door on their foot as much as they like, but all they're going to do is hit the sole of the shoe, so they can keep shouting their pitch through the door.
pitching, with, false scarcity and urgency. Hey, this is only available at this price while I'm in your street. That is rubbish. If you ring them up the next day and say, I want to buy that vacuum cleaner, they'll say, yeah, we'll sell you one.
It's all high risk to the customer. So much so that regulatory bodies have had to put cooling off periods. In some marketplaces, like in Australia, if you buy a car, you have a 48 hour cooling off period, can hand it back and not have any penalty.
Same with insurance. soft quiet selling is when you show up as this sage and you do three things, you express profound genius. let them see that there is deep wisdom behind what you're sharing. you don't use ego to sell.
you use wisdom to sell. The second thing is powerful calm. You don't use pressure. You actually just use presence. And what your presence must do to calm them or fragment them.
This is solvable. it's a calming effect.you don't use false scarcity in urgency only while the offer lasts. The only urgency that matters is the customer's urgency. Like how quickly do you need this solved? I have a model for that, the futures model, which you saw at the conference, how quickly did it dissolve.
then the third thing is practical simplicity. The greatest form of sophisticated communication that we have is simplification. actually when you create real clarity, The customer goes, I know what that is and I'm happy to buy that.
Such profound genius, powerful, calm, practical simplicity. it's this quiet selling of, but do you want this change? Want this paradigm shift? And how soon do you want it? the customer knows what the consequences will be if they make this happen.
often it's not shouting it's good. It's talking softer and quieter.
You can be a real extrovert, but still do this, right? It's no accident that a lot of the best sales people I meet are actually introverts because they naturally do this. They just have this quiet, humble swagger, they know the product works and it matters and I'm just going to walk you through it.
Sharad Lal: Wonderful. Makes a lot of sense. Last question. Bottom line. What's the one piece of advice you'd like to leave people with, Simon?
Simon Bowen: I read a book called Outwitting the Devil,
Napoleon Hill. Phenomenal book. He's articulating what is it that causes most people to fail? And, it's three things. Most people drift.they don't take action, they don't make decisions, they avoid things.
They turn that into a hypnotic rhythm. they turn their drift into a habit. And the simple passing of time compounds that. It gets worse and worse over time. I think my biggest piece of advice to people, particularly people, don't drift, don't drift.
Now drift is, you just didn't do what you needed to do in the moment. Other people might call it self discipline, but it's hard to talk to somebody about having self discipline if you haven't even stopped them from drifting yet. Just don't drift in the first instance. You don't have to be highly disciplined.
what if every day you just,make sure you didn't drift that day. And you did that 365 days in a row. That'd be a pretty good year. And you would have made some serious progress just because you didn't drift.
What if you did that for 50 years? You'd have a great life, right? the trajectory of where you would have been, where you'd end up would have compounded so significantly
We're never given a challenge we can't handle at the level we're at. So just don't drift,
Sharad Lal: powerful, Simon. you mentioned the book to me. I'm reading it and I'm also reading his other book, learn and grow rich. So I'm reading it together. And interestingly, there's some mention of this book in that there's some concepts there.
Simon Bowen: so what happened was he wrote Think and Grow Rich because, Dale Carnegie asked him to, but it never turned into the book that he wanted to be.so he went away and wrote Outwitting the Devil, literary device he used in there was him talking to the devil, can't publish that, they'll run us out of town, in 1938, so he promised her he wouldn't, it would not be published until after she died, so it wasn't published until 2010, I think Outwitting the Devil is a significantly different story.
Sharad Lal: Better book and more direct than Think and Grow Rich. Outwitting the Devil is really an astounding piece of work. absolutely. Thank you, Simon. for so much wisdom on this podcast, sharing so many good insights. Thank you very much for this.
Simon Bowen: Oh, my absolute pleasure. Thank you for having me on the show.
Sharad Lal: Thank you Simon for such a fascinating conversation. For more on Simon, please check out the show notes. Here's something all of us could think about. Is there a business problem we're working with? What's the context? Let's spend enough time thinking about it, maybe even a day or a week. And refining it. Clarifying it. Getting it under 25 words. On the other end of the spectrum.
What's the contrast? Just thinking about these two aspects, which normally get left out, Can help us capture the depth of the opportunity. Best of luck. I hope you enjoyed this episode. The next episode will drop two weeks from now on August 27th. Do join us for that. Till next time, have a wonderful day ahead.
Bye-bye.
Sharad Lal: Hi, everyone. Welcome to how to live a podcast that explores ways to live a good life. I'm your host Sharad Lal. This is episode 74. Today, we'll dive into understanding life Through geometry and shapes. Our guest is the world's leading authority on visual models that sell. Simon Bowen. Simon is the founder of the models method, a groundbreaking approach that helps business owners create powerful million dollar visual models. He's the creator, the trademark genius model. Which has received widespread claims across multiple organisations. A deep thinker.
Simon is celebrated for bringing wisdom to life through visual models. Having worked with fortune 500 companies, governments, the military and the private sector. In our conversation, We explore how visuals enhance our understanding of complex concepts. How to create impactful visual models and the depth of thinking they can bring. Plus Simon we'll do a live session with a current business idea I'm working on and transform it into a visual model. Before we dive in.
Thank you very much for your support. We're in the top 3% of all podcasts. And with listeners across one 40 countries. If you haven't already, please do follow us now. Let's welcome. The incredible Simon Boban.
Sharad Lal: Hi, Simon. Welcome to the How to Live podcast. How are you doing this afternoon in Perth?
Simon Bowen: Fantastic. Thank you. It's finally a little warmer.
Sharad Lal: It's very warm in Singapore as well. It's so good to have you on the podcast. I remember listening to your keynote, two months back and not only me, everyone in the room was fascinated. And just for the folks listening, Simon has a very unique way of doing keynotes. He walks up with an iPad and starts sketching out models and explaining concepts.
It's such a powerful way of understanding concepts at its depth. So Simon, maybe let's start there. What motivated you to use a visual way of explaining? Is there a backstory to it?
Simon Bowen: I've always Drawn to explain things and then that evolved into models and I assumed everybody else did that I didn't really realise they didn't until you know Probably 10 to 15 years ago people started saying could you teach us how to do models the way you do it? I grew up in country, Western Australia in really small towns. Once you get your licence and you're going to drive out to visit your uncles on the farm or whatever, say to dad, well, how do I get to this place?
And he would grab a stick and draw a map in the ground and go, well, this is how you get there. you don't get to take the map with you. You just got to remember it. I grew up around a lot of handy people, and if they were going to build something, they would just sketch it out on a bit of paper first.
So there's this very logical process you want to conceptualise something that's going to become a real thing in the physical world, you draw it out on paper first. and that's one of the deeper principles that sits behind models.
that we create as people. is an idea first, like this technology that you and I are using, but its first appearance in the physical world is usually as a drawing on paper or these days in a CAD or a design program So there's actually a metaphysical pathway between the idea in the head, a drawing on paper, and then.
The physical thing. Children. At a very young age, the first thing they put on paper are drawings. And their parents go, that's wonderful, and they frame them. so there's a lot of emotional connection to drawing. I started life working in electrics and electronics. and, You can't design an electronic circuit or diagnose in a circuit without a circuit diagram, which is a model of the circuit on paper.
I think my brain has just been shaped to think visually. And a lot of people are visual auditory and kinesthetic learners, the fact is 83 percent of the cues that the brain gets from the world around us comes through the optic nerve.
We actually are all visual receivers.
We use imagery as humans to imagine and to recall. so I just started using models to do work. Then I became a lecturer,teaching physics, chemistry, and electronics.
The fastest way to teach physics and particularly formulas is with little models. as I ventured through the executive world and leadership and then consultancy, it was just the natural way I communicated. And I honestly just assumed it did. but I understand now why I had such a high strike rate as a salesperson and everything else because nobody was, I was using sketch pads instead of notepads and I drew in front of potential clients and they'd say, could I get a copy of that?
I had a camera I used to carry around with me. I'll take a photo and I tear the page out and give it to them. And I've just turned them into an internal salesperson to go back to their organisation with these models that I just drew.
Whereas a lot of people meet with that forward scout and they don't equip them to go back and have the conversation. it was just always the way I worked and. It's a really powerful way.
visual models have this incredible kind of superpower effect. They're really a system for thinking and a system for influence. they give framing to deeper, more profound thinking.
great leaders, speakers, messengers, coaches, consultants,principally we have to be able to, create powerful depth of thinking and communication that influences people and causes them to make some choices,
Sharad Lal: Very powerful, Simon. And you were so fortunate to have that training in visual models. Like you said, it comes naturally to us, but you trained in it. you worked on it for many years because of which you developed that skill. Many of us haven't. And now you then take it as a superpower and help people with it.
Simon Bowen: Absolutely. People look at a visual model and think, Oh, it's just a model. But there are so many layers of psychology and almost philosophy inside of models.
So when I'm thinking of a model, the first thing I'm actually thinking about is what is the geometry that would tell this story?Many dimensions to this are there? I'm actually thinking about geometry because geometry is pretty magical.
I'm actually a science geek. And the world is principally maths and geometry, let's say you have to communicate something to somebody, and there are three key components to this, and you must have all three, then you better use a triangle.
you lose one of those sides, the whole thing collapses, right? But if you don't have to have all three, use a three circle men diagram, right? gives the dimension, it gives the dynamic.
So the dynamic is things like, is this an expanding concept that we're dealing with or narrowing? is it continuous? Is it a pathway? Is it singular? Is it a continuum? Or whatever.
Sometimes I might try two or three different shapes to find the one that I want. When I feel pretty confident the shape is going to work, I just start playing with the content. There's really four levels of thinking about that kind of matter. so the first level of thinking is context.
context is all about relevance. Everything we do as humans requires context. if I come to work one day and I'm just not into it, so I, I bulge around all day, or not bulge around, I just don't work that fast, and I have big periods of distraction and things like that,
The context is perhaps laziness. But if I come to work one day and I'm easily distracted and I have big periods where I'm not doing anything, but I have just found out that day that one of my dearest friends has passed away, the context is not laziness. The context is sadness. The context behind everything gives meaning.
the geometry, I'm looking for, is the context in this model? Where am I going to represent the context? I try to keep it in the middle of the model. It's really telling a story from where the problem situation or issue is right now, to where it is now. Could be. The second level of thinking is concept.
What's the concept? What's the idea that's going to get it done? And then the third level of thinking is content, action. Let's do it, right? Now there's a fourth level of thinking which is important, but a lot of people don't think about that, and that is contrast. a conversation with one person, things that are in contrast, that are not even a part of this, keep sneaking into the conversation. has left the conversation or never made it in the first place.
Someone threw a concept up, which sounded like a good idea. And in a heart in half a beat, we're down into the content in the weeds. no wonder the conversation goes off rails, no one argues about the need, the problem, the why, which is context.
People seldom argue over the problem,
People only ever argue over the solution because they're usually looking at it through their lens and through their context. You bring people together by keeping context front and centre, you explore all the concepts.
The content I'm trying to build into the model is context and concept. And I want to do that so cleanly that contrast, what is not in the model, becomes obvious.I studied stage magic and comedy, the two most engaging art forms for And they're both based on this idea of what's really happening is, here's an old paradigm. set up the joke or the trick. Punch line or reveal. Boom! In a half a beat, collapse the paradigm and introduce the new paradigm. We call it the punch line effect.
when people look at a model and go, Oh, it's just a two by two matrix, four squares. it's far from that because it's all about the delivery. The other thing that happens, Sharon is, someone will put four squares on a bit of paper and then put something inside the squares and go, I've got a model.
No, you don't. You have a list of four ones in each box. What is the horizontal dimension about? And what is the vertical dimension about? And why does the interaction of those two dimensions, around one quadrant cause that thing that you've got inside the quadrant?
Are we trying to get from the bottom left corner of that two by two matrix to the top right corner? What is the direction of the paradigm shift that's what makes a model?
when I am through the process of capturing the core models of their business. one of my flagship models, a model called the genius
can capture the entire genius of a company in one model. Every part of that model matters, every bit of overlapping area, every interaction, and that's why they create such powerful kinds of conversations.
there's a lot of thinking inside
Sharad Lal: Yes. Thanks.Simon, I had a fun idea. If, if your game, I'm working on a problem. Should I just put it out there for us to see the context concept, and let's just try it out and see what happens.
Simon Bowen: Yeah. Let's see what happens.
Sharad Lal: so I'm working on this particular thing where people hit midlife, like people hit their forties and they work for 20, 25 years and They've lost the spark they once had, and they're also unsure how to go to the next level in their career, in their peak and the different people now.
they're looking at not just performance. They're looking at purpose. They're looking at family. They're looking at relationships. I was trying to create a model for this context of people. How can they come in, discover who they are, and be more conscious about where they want to go from a whole life standpoint.
What could be ways to, yeah, approach this?
Simon Bowen: I'll try and describe the model in words. if there's something that I want to use, but the starting point really though is, what you've just described to me,is concept and some content.
Sharad Lal: You've said people hit
Simon Bowen: I think you said they might have had some success, to discover what the next part of their life is going to be: family, relationships, purpose and things like that. then you said some other things, which is almost getting into content, some of the things that people could do. But the bigger contextual question is, why does that even matter?
Sharad Lal: I can give a little bit more on the context. As they mature, some of them had success, but they realised the success hasn't gotten them the fulfilment they're looking for. They think they're working in the corporate world. They're like a cog in the wheel. They're not really making an impact.
Why are they here in life? What's the impact they need to make? That's one level of thought. And the second level of thought is I have 20 more years to work. How do I shape my life? I'm a very different person to someone who started out a career in their twenties. What should I think about my life?
Simon Bowen: contextual thinking is you've really only caught context when you catch it in the fewest number of words.
Everything has a pattern to prove that,we start thinking about what's the most random thing we can think of? And luck seems pretty random. In fact, it's not. There are patterns to the lottery. in terms of the numbers that win but you can't choose the same numbers every week.
we uncovered these patterns and I got to a medical statistician friend of mine to run an algorithm that allows you to win division three and four, three weeks out of four,
there's a way to mark the card and choose the numbers statistically,
We also found a bunch of other research that allowed us to enter competitions to win cars and trips and things like that. And to date, we've won about a million and a half dollars worth of prizes.
one of the big things is, the competitions that say, Hey, in 25 words or less, do you want a new car? tell us why. And most people say, I've got my old car broken down and it's not going to last.
I'd love a new car. But we discovered that they're actually running these competitions, not to make more sales, but to get consumers to give them great marketing taglines.
The question is, why is it 25 words or less? And the pattern there is, if you use someone's name, they hear about the next 24 words.just do it. The three word tag is the most powerful communication tag on the planet. and so 25 words is the most. 10 words is better. Three is even better.
So usually when I'm asking people, what is the context of that? I want it in or less.
The right question is why does this matter? told me some stuff and it's close to context, context needs to punch hard. Okay.
Sharad Lal: They are stuck.
Simon Bowen: You just keep asking why. Why does it matter if they're stuck? Who actually cares? Why is that even important?
Sharad Lal: Uncomfortable, restless, existential,
Simon Bowen: Why is that happening?
Sharad Lal: looking for some meaning. I want to be relevant.
Simon Bowen: right? Everyone talks about meaning and relevance. your why and relevance, they're all concepts.
Sharad Lal: Why do humans find meaning and find purpose? To feel useful.
Simon Bowen: Great. So what if the context was your life should matter more than you could ever have expected it to?
Sharad Lal: Do you hear the difference? Completely.
Simon Bowen: Let me just pretend to be you, right? Talking to this. and I'm going to drop this contextual truth bomb on people. your life should matter more than you ever could have expected it to. So when you were a child, you didn't have to think about this stuff. life mattered if you were loved And then as you became a teenager, Your life mattered if you fit it in as you became, young adult your life mattered if you achieve some things and then, if you started a family and had children, a cycle, your life mattered you're no longer the child being loved by your parents, but you are the parent being loved by your child, but your life absolutely mattered because you had. a human to protect and to nurture in the world. so you've got to provide, people think, oh, I've got to buy a house. No, that's just Maslow's hierarchy, find some shelter. get a house, put food on the table, and for a lot of people that plays out through to about 40, their life really matters just because of the normal rhythm of life, right?
what happens at about 40, a lot of people have achieved a lot of the things they're going to do in life. Their children are starting to become more independent. and then the question becomes, what now? the first mountain of life, is that first half of life, where
you often reach personal success, but then in the second mountain of life, you start to realise that mountain's much bigger. Who knew that the second mountain in life was going to be much bigger. And you realise actually that maybe you were meant to be here for something greater than yourself.
maybe the measure of whether your life mattered more than you could have expected it to, was you did something greater than yourself. you had relationships that were greater than yourself. You had, impact that was greater than yourself. You made a contribution that was greater than yourself.
You learned more than you ever thought you could possibly learn. what most people have realised in this midlife, Which is why it's a crisis.
In the second half of life, you have to make a choice you could have ever expected to, and some people struggle with making that choice. So what we need to think about what do you need to do to make the choices that allow your life to matter more than you could have ever expected it to in the second half of life in whatever direction you want to take that charity, business, entrepreneurialism, sporting pursuits, family, whatever direction you're going to have some choices to make.
the problem with midlife crisis. People fundamentally don't like making choices. So here's a concept, the number one challenge with midlife crisis. is the ability to make choices at a deep enough level that you get past the emotional barriers
Sharad Lal: Um, Um, you, that makes you risk averse.
Simon Bowen: You can only climb that second mountain where you have some sort of impact greater than yourself if you're willing to take a risk. They are the only people that get to the top of that second mountain. The big contextual question is, do you want your life to matter more than you could have ever expected it to?
Are you willing to make the choices and take the risk? And if you are, talk about what that looks like and some of the concepts that might allow you to do that, but make it as safe as possible, some risks to be taken. imagine I was running a program on helping people at
As you hear me talking about that, recognizing I really don't know anything about that at all.
Sharad Lal: I was going to ask you that. Have you thought about it, all the things you just said, or it was your thinking mode
Simon Bowen: I'm just constantly bringing them back to context. If you listen back to this, take notice of how many times I've said your life should matter more than you could have ever expected. I've gone back to context, brought it back into the conversation.
the first half of your life, you didn't have to think about how to make your life matter more than you could ever expect it to because life demanded it of You had people relying on you and everything else, but in the second half of life, if you haven't taken risks, nothing is relying on you.
You're not going to do something bigger than yourself.
the major problem with the midlife crisis, notwithstanding any other. mental well being, or mental health,difficulties. A midlife crisis is fundamentally an issue of choice and you've got to be able to get below the emotions that are stopping you from making choices.
Now I could have a model that talks about the trajectory of life. I could perhaps have two mountains, the first mountain of life and the second mountain of life, and in between is this valley of despair. called midlife and people are standing at the top of the first mountain and they can see the second mountain and they want to get there but they can also see the valley of despair down below them they know they've got to go down before they even start climbing up again and they go I don't want to do that.
I'll just stay at the top of my and I'll get to the end and feel unfulfilled. If I had just taken the risk to go down into the Valley of Despair, how do I go into the Valley of Despair with a level of safety?
Am I willing to, you've got to get below the emotional condition, I know it's going to be hard. I know it's going to make me uncomfortable and people might judge me, but I'm going to go for it. Because the other side is so much more promising. That's emotional posture and choice.
There's lots of ways I can show that in models, and I haven't had any conversation at all about content. if you stay at the top of the first mountain and don't leave. You just live the rest of your life as if you're 40. on repeat until you die. Do you want to do that? Or do you want to make your life matter more than you ever could have expected?Everyone's talking about meaning and finding your why and everything else. Most people just want their life to matter to someone, somehow,
you're going to have to go into the Valley of Despair and climb the second mountain, n figure out what that looks like for you. and then take that direction. What's the concept? you're going to need to take some risks. You're going to have to make some choices.
You're going to have to dig in, to emotional resilience and stability. And you should try and find some ways of doing it as safely as possible and minimise the amount of risk, but there are going to be risks. So you've got to go down to the valley of despair. Can someone walk with you?
Can someone carry the bag for you as you climb that second mountain and hand you what you need as you need it? Are there mentors that could help you, et cetera. The best mentors say, I'll carry the backpack and I'll just give you what you need out of the backpack when you need it and you focus on climbing. and all I'm doing, Sharad, is, context, concept, context, concept, every now and again, contrast, context, concept.
Sharad Lal: Wow, that makes a lot of sense. And it's just sparked so many thoughts. And I won't take more free consulting. I'm more tempted to.
I thought it was a great idea to have a play with a real example, It was absolutely worth the excitement. It's very useful for me. And if you're selling it, I would want to do that program. I can see how the context and contrast itself Lends to it. then of course the concept can come. I was wondering, even when you think about stuff, you say things that come visually to you.
And that was interesting to me . This is like a triangle, an inverted triangle, a pie chart, a thing. How does that work?
Simon Bowen: anyone that does complex work and, if you're selling a product or service where the prospects situation, isn't easily known,
you almost do it intuitively. That's a complex sale, right? There's an explanation needed for people to understand real value.
We use so much language that is visually based. no one says I have difficulty getting someone to hear the value of what I do. They always say we have difficulty getting people to see the value of what I do. then you better give them a picture.
Sharad Lal: There are three levels of problem that people have, The first level of problem is the known problem. I know what the problem is, and you know I know what the problem is,go to the dentist, and I go, I've got a bad toothache, and it's killing me, can you fix my toothache?
Simon Bowen: Absolutely, that's the known problem. value that addresses that is fixed. We've got to fix that toothache. Fix is we've got to fix an immediate problem or pain. It's immediate, we've got to fix it right now.
The second problem is, it's a known but hidden problem. You know what the problem is. I know what the problem is, you don't want to talk about it, So I'm looking at your teeth as your dentist. you've got toothache, I can also tell from your teeth that you have very poor dental hygiene, you probably eat too much sugar we're going to have a conversation about that,
But that's not a conversation you want to have, you come in with a bad toothache and you're like, I just can't imagine what caused it.I'm looking as a dentist and I know exactly what's caused it, now I need to introduce a prevent type value.
prevent is about protecting you from medium term risk. anything over the next six to 12 months. there's two types of risk. There's positive risk, which is missing out on an opportunity, FOMO, the fear of missing out, the risk of risk is harm. Something bad could happen to you.
So removing the risk of harm. if, fix is a prescription. prevent is like insurance, right? so I need to say to you, Sharad, I need to see you every six months
The third type of problem is the unknown problem. This is stuff I know that you actually don't know, and this is the deepest level of problem, and this is an improved type value. I can improve something that you already think is pretty good,
Sharad, we've got you stabilised. You've got fabulous dental health and hygiene, but it's just not that hard for us to straighten your teeth or for us to whiten them. could actually have a million dollar smile. It could be way better than you're ever expecting.
so fix, prevent, improve. are the three types of value,
The question was how do I get into this visual thinking that's going on in my head. I've been doing it for so long, I actually hear conversations in models.
Sharad Lal: heh, heh, heh, heh, heh,
Simon Bowen: As I'm reading a book, a As I have conversations with people, a model is appearing.
I carry in my head this hierarchy of problems or needs. Below is the concept.
As we get lower, what are the tasks and activities? every time I'm listening to a conversation. I'm running through thoughts in my mind about how many dimensions there are. To this conversation, I've got a rule that,never any more than five dimensions and ideally no more than three. I don't mean dimensions as in 3D, in the smallest number of dimensions as I
visually in my head I'm thinking about levels from highest level thinking to lowest level thinking. I'm thinking about how many dimensions are in play. Can I have fewer dimensions than that in play? I'm starting to think about is this an expanding Kind of idea that started narrow at the bottom and it's getting wider and wider at the top, or did it start narrow at the top and it's getting wider and wider at the bottom, or is it sideways, or is it a continuous kind of loop?
oh, the infinity diagram would be cool. every now and again, I'll just jump on the internet and I'll Google geometric shapes because it gives me ideas.
I've got a pretty vast library of geometry that I could use for models in my head these days. So I just know what shapes are going to work.
We're really storytelling inside geometry. I have a pretty good feeling now for the kind of geometry that tells different kinds of stories.
I built a lot of models live in front of people. but if I build a model in my office, I use it that day. With somebody on a call in the room or something because I want to get feedback on it as fast as I can Which means I'm willing to risk that someone will say I don't agree with that model But I want the model to be as right as it possibly can be
I test fast which means I have no attachment to whether I'm right or wrong. I see the models as having a separate identity to me.
Sharad Lal: You have to go to people for this? you know that, all right, now I have a model. These five people I'm gonna call.
Simon Bowen: I'm on zoom every day with people if I've built a model. find a way to get it into those conversations. So testing the model in a live environment, if it works,
I'm very happy to walk on stage as a speaker without having a safety net and just rely on what I end up drawing on my iPad, and that it's going to work, right? But you build that skill, you build the muscle. the best speakers can do that, but that's spoken and worked
You need to have this level of confidence. ego, humble swagger. One of the mistakes I see a lot of people making is they'll write a dissertation inside the model.
Sharad Lal: That's the thing. Yeah.
Simon Bowen: They'll put 10 words where they need two,
So I've consciously worked on the ability to create intellectual shortcuts. I've There's a lot of skill building that in a lot of
People don't want to hear that, I did the work. I practise. I went and studied stage magic and comedy and I practised the idea of dropping a punchline, like I've consciously gone after this,
Sharad Lal: it shows the way you capture depth in these models. And you were talking about various layers. Is there anything you do? I know it comes naturally to you to capture the depth of the story into that simple three dimensional model dimensional world.
Simon Bowen: yeah, in marketing, you've got to get a great headline, right?
Yes. to come up with a headline once.
the great copywriters write a hundred headlines. they don't write one and go, that's good. They write a hundred or two hundred and then they test them. So I'm looking for the intellectual shortcuts to capture real depth, I have a rule. I want to try and get it in no more than five words.
I'd love it in three. Two's even better. I might test10 or 20 different ways of saying that, what happens now when I'm living in front of people, there's two things going on.
Particularly if it's interactive, often someone in the audience gives me the depth.
The whole room thinks we're talking at surface level. Someone says something over on the side, and I know that's what the base is going to be. So I park that thought.
I've taken what someone said in five to 10 words and turned it into three and gone, is it about this? it's a combination of, doing the work, in today's world, a lot of people don't want to hear
once you've done the work and you've got that ability, it's just trusting yourself,
The worst that could happen is you learn something. That's not a bad thing, you might have a setback at that moment, but you're trying to climb the second mountain,you are going to get fatigued and have some bad days. but what is true for me is that the model holds me anchored and centred.
The model brings me back to where I was, like I can drift off in a direction, the geometry always brings me back. so I can bring the audience back or I can bring the thinking back to, okay, now let's get back to this thing.
Sharad Lal: We've talked so much and we can go on, but I thought before we end, I just want to touch on one topic. You have multiple options in terms of how you could have created your business. What have you lent into and how did that choice get shaped?
Simon Bowen: It's an interesting question. We had a mainstream general management consulting business.and started out as a training company. and I became pretty acutely aware very early that.
I want to be in a marketplace where I can own a place that is mine. I wanted to be the sage. I needed to have a style of business and a way of showing up.
I think one of the most powerful business models in the world is the information business, low inventory, not a whole lot of stock required.
you make a big difference to people if you're sharing powerful insights, information and mentoring that then other people can act on. The thing I love about that industry is your clients often go and do more with what you've helped them with.
how I can help the world, but I can't do it.
in a big enough way, but my clients can. So I rattled through types of industries.
I started thinking about the markets I want to play
I want to play in the biggest market that I can play in and I know with some certainty that it's hard to make a profit in your own backyard.
Sharad Lal: Interesting.
Simon Bowen: It's called the curse of familiarity.
In fact, when you work with an organisation, if you work with the executive team and then the next level down and the next level down, at some point, you are going to suffer the curse of familiarity in that organisation.
we should try somebody else just to see who else is around. made the conscious decision. I was going to work in markets that were outside my own backyard, which meant Australia. So we had run a successful consulting business here, but we just jumped straight to the U S and our business model has always been always about the network that we're building in terms of variety and perspective. We wanted a network across as many industries and perspectives as we possibly could.
I coined this phrase buyer safety. I think business is the most powerful force for good on the planet if the right people are leading it.
That means selling should be the most noble thing we do because the sale is where the service starts. If they don't buy from you, if a surgeon doesn't sell the surgery, the healing doesn't start. the customer should feel safer with you at every step of the sales process, than they would with anyone else.
So we've created this approach to selling that hangs off buyer safety. instead of making a loud promise to the marketplace, what if you made a quiet promise? When you lower your voice and speak softer, people lean in. if you're standing on stage, say as a speaker, professional speaker, you're shouting at the audience. hearing you. just loud
But if you lean in, lower your tone, speaking to your microphone, people lean in. are more responsive to the soft, quiet promise than they are to the loud promise. Hey, it's the best in the world. We're the number one, we're the thought leader, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. so I wanted to be in markets that allowed me to bring that kind of Approach to business to the marketplace.
And
I'm really clear about what the business is. then it's just about how you open up markets that you want to play in.
The contextual question for business isn't what product do I want to bring to the marketplace or how do I get it sold? The contextual question is what playground do I want to play in?
Sharad Lal: Because different playgrounds have different needs, right? Australia has 27 million people. California is 50 million over twice our population, right? businesses don't have a noise problem in the marketplace, but you do in the U S there's so much noise, right? So what market do you want to play in?
Simon Bowen: I know I can help people get above the noise. Makes sense. I'd go and play in a marketplace where there's a lot of noise.
So it's pretty interesting.
Sharad Lal: I know we're running short of time, if you have time, I'm very keen if there's, you talked about that soft approach to sales. What exactly is that? Like, how do you do that?
Simon Bowen: yeah. The industrial age of selling, came out of the door to door vacuum cleaning salespeople.
It was called foot in the door selling, where the sole of the shoe was wider than the actual foot of the shoe. They'd go and knock on doors house to house during the day, because the little woman of the house was at home not working and they could get them, they could manipulate them into buying a vacuum cleaner while the man of the house was out.
dreadfully misogynistic view of that era. They knew if they could get the door open and then put their foot in the door, they could slam the door on their foot as much as they like, but all they're going to do is hit the sole of the shoe, so they can keep shouting their pitch through the door.
pitching, with, false scarcity and urgency. Hey, this is only available at this price while I'm in your street. That is rubbish. If you ring them up the next day and say, I want to buy that vacuum cleaner, they'll say, yeah, we'll sell you one.
It's all high risk to the customer. So much so that regulatory bodies have had to put cooling off periods. In some marketplaces, like in Australia, if you buy a car, you have a 48 hour cooling off period, can hand it back and not have any penalty.
Same with insurance. soft quiet selling is when you show up as this sage and you do three things, you express profound genius. let them see that there is deep wisdom behind what you're sharing. you don't use ego to sell.
you use wisdom to sell. The second thing is powerful calm. You don't use pressure. You actually just use presence. And what your presence must do to calm them or fragment them.
This is solvable. it's a calming effect.you don't use false scarcity in urgency only while the offer lasts. The only urgency that matters is the customer's urgency. Like how quickly do you need this solved? I have a model for that, the futures model, which you saw at the conference, how quickly did it dissolve.
then the third thing is practical simplicity. The greatest form of sophisticated communication that we have is simplification. actually when you create real clarity, The customer goes, I know what that is and I'm happy to buy that.
Such profound genius, powerful, calm, practical simplicity. it's this quiet selling of, but do you want this change? Want this paradigm shift? And how soon do you want it? the customer knows what the consequences will be if they make this happen.
often it's not shouting it's good. It's talking softer and quieter.
You can be a real extrovert, but still do this, right? It's no accident that a lot of the best sales people I meet are actually introverts because they naturally do this. They just have this quiet, humble swagger, they know the product works and it matters and I'm just going to walk you through it.
Sharad Lal: Wonderful. Makes a lot of sense. Last question. Bottom line. What's the one piece of advice you'd like to leave people with, Simon?
Simon Bowen: I read a book called Outwitting the Devil,
Napoleon Hill. Phenomenal book. He's articulating what is it that causes most people to fail? And, it's three things. Most people drift.they don't take action, they don't make decisions, they avoid things.
They turn that into a hypnotic rhythm. they turn their drift into a habit. And the simple passing of time compounds that. It gets worse and worse over time. I think my biggest piece of advice to people, particularly people, don't drift, don't drift.
Now drift is, you just didn't do what you needed to do in the moment. Other people might call it self discipline, but it's hard to talk to somebody about having self discipline if you haven't even stopped them from drifting yet. Just don't drift in the first instance. You don't have to be highly disciplined.
what if every day you just,make sure you didn't drift that day. And you did that 365 days in a row. That'd be a pretty good year. And you would have made some serious progress just because you didn't drift.
What if you did that for 50 years? You'd have a great life, right? the trajectory of where you would have been, where you'd end up would have compounded so significantly
We're never given a challenge we can't handle at the level we're at. So just don't drift,
Sharad Lal: powerful, Simon. you mentioned the book to me. I'm reading it and I'm also reading his other book, learn and grow rich. So I'm reading it together. And interestingly, there's some mention of this book in that there's some concepts there.
Simon Bowen: so what happened was he wrote Think and Grow Rich because, Dale Carnegie asked him to, but it never turned into the book that he wanted to be.so he went away and wrote Outwitting the Devil, literary device he used in there was him talking to the devil, can't publish that, they'll run us out of town, in 1938, so he promised her he wouldn't, it would not be published until after she died, so it wasn't published until 2010, I think Outwitting the Devil is a significantly different story.
Sharad Lal: Better book and more direct than Think and Grow Rich. Outwitting the Devil is really an astounding piece of work. absolutely. Thank you, Simon. for so much wisdom on this podcast, sharing so many good insights. Thank you very much for this.
Simon Bowen: Oh, my absolute pleasure. Thank you for having me on the show.
Sharad Lal: Thank you Simon for such a fascinating conversation. For more on Simon, please check out the show notes. Here's something all of us could think about. Is there a business problem we're working with? What's the context? Let's spend enough time thinking about it, maybe even a day or a week. And refining it. Clarifying it. Getting it under 25 words. On the other end of the spectrum.
What's the contrast? Just thinking about these two aspects, which normally get left out, Can help us capture the depth of the opportunity. Best of luck. I hope you enjoyed this episode. The next episode will drop two weeks from now on August 27th. Do join us for that. Till next time, have a wonderful day ahead.
Bye-bye.